maths in schools

[var123]

I know this isn't a G&T thing specifically, but its come about because I've started working through a maths GCSE textbook with DS1 and I really don't fancy having to explain and justify that decision as I would have to on other parts of mumsnet.

So, I started teaching DS1 yesterday. The first thing we did was go through and mark what he already knows. He has learned some sophisticated stuff at school. However, he didn't know how to do long multiplication! He can do the grid method, but not the method that generations of children have learned.

Ditto long division.

So, the first thing I have to do with my highly able 13 year old is to teach him the stuff that I learned halfway through primary school

I know dd (y7) uses it, but tbh I can't remember if it's a method I taught her at some point , or if she did it at school. And if she did do it at school I couldn't tell you if it was done as you suggest op as a bit of variation in class. Or if the class she had maths with still learnt it as part of the curriculum hence she was taught it with them. Anything where there's no calculator it's definitely her favourite method.

My ds is only YR3, so he hasn't been taught properly at school yet, but he learned it through IXL, so it's definitely in curriculum now.
We started to use IXL only because the teacher suggested there are gaps in his maths knowledge in YR1. But I realized some skills in the curriculum are not actually covered in school.
My ds uses lattice and column method for X, but for division, he can use long division but he also uses strange(for me) method as well.

I can't wait for ds to wake up to ask him how he would do a calculation thwt I would use long division or multiplication for. He's 14 and left me behind in maths when he was in year 7. That says more about my maths than his, admittedly!

Maybe you understood what I was saying, so apologies if you did.
My point was not that the 20th century methods are better, or worse, but that if children are likely to be required to use a traditional method in an exam, then it would have been as well to teach them it.

If there wasn't time then so be it. However, since DS1 and many other children spend quite a lot of time doing extension work, which is basically something to do to keep them occupied whilst waiting for the others( as in practice it just proves mastery, rather than enables it), then I think there was time.

The primary class teacher could've said here's another worksheet. Main section of the class, please use the grid method to solve these problems and top table please use the long multiplication method and the grid method and make sure the answers match. (For example).

Even if it will never be required in an exam, it would have been something else to do.

But are they going to be expected to use traditional methods in an exam?

I find it surprising that secondary age children forget to put the 0 in the second line!
OP, there are many areas of maths that he could investigate ( himself) without needing to cover the school curriculum at home. If he's to love maths, finding those areas independently would be best.

I don't know...its in the textbook and the exercise doesn't say "use any method". It says " use the long multiplication method". It was in the very first chapter which was a sort of what you need to know before you get started chapter.

Noblegiraffe said yesterday that the book would've been published before the exam syllabus was finalised, and she, as a maths teacher, does not seem to think long multiplication is important, so maybe it being included in the book is just a red herring.

DC1 (Y2) uses the column method for multiplying two 3-digit numbers. She's only just 6 (late summerborn) but doesn't forget the zeros, so I'm rather surprised that secondary-school students would!

Clearly I am not teaching my 6yo from a GCSE maths book (or indeed teaching her at all) so they must have learnt the column method in school and it's back on the curriculum.

I'm not sure what the other methods are though - looks like it's time for me to do a bit of learning. What are 'lattice', 'grid' and 'Chinese kite'?

The brand new KS2 SATs (first sitting current Y6) penalises you if you don't use the traditional methods.

The brand new GCSE (first sitting current Y10) doesn't. The Edexcel guidance document says 'We will test non-calculator arithmetic, including long multiplication and division, on the non-calculator paper. No method will be specified; any correct method will be accepted"

I can't speak for the other exam boards but I'm sure I'd have heard about it if they were demanding particular methods.

And yes, they do forget the zeros! Every year I see it!

Maybe it's a case of being taught too late . Perhaps like foreign languages, zeros are easier to pick up the younger you are!

I don't know when they are taught it at primary, but clearly didn't get enough practice because they bodge it when they get to Y7.

Don't get me wrong, plenty of students bodge the other methods too, but I particularly notice the column multiplication being bodged because so few students choose to use it, and more seem to bodge it than not.

Racundra, its about his self confidence. He goes to pieces every so often and really beats himself up. He says he is stupid or maybe he was capable of learning the level 6 curriculum but that was a fluke and his true inability will be revealed when he fails to learn the level 7 curriculum. Then he gets 7a in the level 5-7 exam and he's OK for a few months. Then it starts again.

Additionally, when he spends prolonged periods in maths at school doing work he mastered two years earlier (which is what he's been doing since March), then he begins to convince himself that the teacher doesn't care and that's because he does not matter.

This is a worry that the G&T parents sometimes have. It's the reason why this section exists, not as many seem to think that it's a sub-forum for boasting.

Anyway, I worry for DS1 and I keep hoping he will mature out of it. It is getting better as he grows up. It was most severe when he was about 9 or 10, so I am hopeful that he'll stop thinking that way completely. Meantime, it seems to me that the temporary fix is to teach him the next level up. He got 8a at the start of 2015, after just a few hours of coaching, so I was thinking to spend a bit of time teaching him GCSE stuff over the coming months.

Then next year, he will be a year older and more mature, he'll have more to do in the other subjects and we can practice problem solving and lateral thinking if he wants to.

I wish progress had not been measured in levels so far for DS1's sake as it gives him something to succeed or fail against. But it has been the system in force and its the only system DS knows, so its easier to just go with it.

I will spend time looking at ukmt with him too though.

Unless he decides that it's all unnecessary and he'd rather spend time thinking about girls (or whatever 13 year old boys think about!)

Does he actually show his interest to the teacher. Does he asks questions to show he is intetested in maths?

AQA says "any valid method" too.

when he spends prolonged periods in maths at school doing work he mastered two years earlier

But by teaching him the extra content aren't you causing this problem? Or at least prolonging it.

The nrich website is another good source of problems which extend rather than accelerate.

Are the classes set

My ds doesn't have problem with 0 as well, but has problem with decimal points when using column method.

We teach to take the decimal point out before multiplying. So instead of doing 3.86 x 4.92 they'd do 386 x 492. Then they put the decimal point back in the answer so it has 4 decimal places (same as the question).

The classes are set but only to four ability groups. It used to be 8, but timetabling prevented this and things have not been so good since.

IMO the top set must surely cover a much wider ability group than the next one down, especially as the school would put children in there who would find the pace challenging but it does their self-confidence good to be there.

DS1 putting his hand up has been an issue which I've been encouraging him to address. He decided to not put his hand up to answer questions that the teacher must surely realise he could answer, so he thinks she must be asking for the benefit of those who are learning that day. Also DS is not keen to compete for attention with the people who are so keen to answer that they can barely stay in their seat! (This is DS1's logic).

He decided that he'd have a policy of only raising his hand when he had something unique to contribute. As you can imagine, with questions about work aimed at the general class, he wasn't contributing much at all. He didn't have any questions because he mastered the work a while ago, and has already written down the answer.

Moreover, he doesn't like show-offs. In fact both my boys really actively don't like show-offs. (Yes, I have spoken to them about being tolerant and how it takes all sorts). So, what DS1 does not want to do is become a show-off himself. In practice, that means he will not put his hand up in every single lesson and tell the teacher in front of the class that the work that they are doing is too easy for him. This is precisely what the head of department suggested he do.

Instead DS1 told the teacher privately a couple of times, I told her twice and DS1's form tutor also told her. She knew but nothing changed. Now the HoD knows too and still nothing, has changed.

So, my solution, was to suggest that DS1 puts his hand up in each lesson, until he gets picked once, and to just get taught at home at whatever pace he wants.

noblegiraffe - yes, that's right. I am not solving anything, only kicking the ball into the long grass. I am hoping that time will solve the problem eventually. I hope he'll mature out of it, or that the work in the other subjects plus real life interests will eventually crowd out any concerns about maths class being too slow and pitched too low.

I know the real solution would be to get the school to help. But I tried that - I asked the HoD if he could help devise something to develop DS1 sideways, but he flat refuse.

I should've tried to get DS1 into a selective school, but I didn't. shoulda, coulda, woulda...!

First of all my dd thrived in 2nd from top class (out of 7)and didnt do so well in top set. Being in top class never was good for her confidence
Doesnt you ds talk to the teachers about maths at the end of lessons etc. Thats is not showing off, its showing an interest.
Im not talking about being telling the teacher its too easy.i mean actively discussing maths.

Thank you, noblegiraffe

So- am I understanding you correctly? The school have assessed him as working at 8A at the beginning of year 9 but are not offering any differentiated work for him?

When you talked to HofD did he offer suggestions that simply weren't carried through or did he just shrug and say there was nothing he could do?. In either case, you need to write to the Head copied to the HofD and the appropriate governor explaining what you have done so far and (if appropriate) what you would like to happen. Ask for a meeting with the Head within a specified time frame-2 weeks sounds reasonable.

Others will know better than me- but I really wouldn't teach him GCSE stuff- it's surely going to make school even more boring. There have been suggestions for sideways extension on here- there must be other resources you could use?

No, he hurries off to his next lesson. The school gives detention if you are late to class.

If you were to ask me to guess what the maths dept thinks of the situation, I'd guess:-

• who?
• the student is making good progress. He has gone up 3 sub-levels every year. On that measure, we have more than fulfilled our obligations to him.
• the mother is pushy
• the boy is quiet
• the boy gets really good exam results. His pushy mother probably hot-houses him.
• the boy's mother probably wants a special education just for him. No way!