maths in schools

[var123]

I know this isn't a G&T thing specifically, but its come about because I've started working through a maths GCSE textbook with DS1 and I really don't fancy having to explain and justify that decision as I would have to on other parts of mumsnet.

So, I started teaching DS1 yesterday. The first thing we did was go through and mark what he already knows. He has learned some sophisticated stuff at school. However, he didn't know how to do long multiplication! He can do the grid method, but not the method that generations of children have learned.

Ditto long division.

So, the first thing I have to do with my highly able 13 year old is to teach him the stuff that I learned halfway through primary school

no they assessed him at 8a in the middle of year 8. At the beginning of year 9, they are teaching him level 7 things.

The HoD said "oh yes, I know your son".

"Well if he is finding the work too easy, maybe its because he is borderline between two sets".

"Oh, he's in the top set? Are you sure? Who is his teacher?"

"Oh, yes she does teach the top set. Well we want to challenge all students. I am sure it will be better next year, but no I will not allow a student to quietly do different work fom the others in the room. Wait until October, and contact me again if it isn't all solved in year 9 when the pace will be so much higher...".

Then in October, he said "I spoken to the year 9 teacher. She says your son doesn't answer questions much. That means the work is challenging"
"Doing some level 7 work is unavoidable sometimes".

Then he outright lied. he said "The year 9s did an exam this month. No one got 100% so that proves that you son is being challenged."
My private thought was that DS1's perfectionism could do without 100% or you don't know it policies, but instead I asked what Ds1 did get. The HoD replied that he didn't have the information to hand. So I asked Ds1 when he came home from school that afternoon. Ds1 looked at me blankly. He had no idea what i was going on about. he told me that the only exam/ test/ anything that was getting marked at all had been a test the class had done that day. Ds1 and his class would have only been 10 mins into the paper when the HoD wrote to me in an email that it had been marked, the results collated and the outcome was that no one got 100%.

That was the point, that I gave up on the school. Can you blame me?

OK. I wasn't asking you to guess, by the way. I was suggesting a course of action!

I can see why you might have given up on the HofD. I can't understand why you haven't taken this to the Head. Not just for the sake of your DS but for the sake of others. O

because the SLT would ask if I'd spoken to the HoD about it. I'd say yes, he thinks Ds1 is challenged.
Then what - do i show the HoD's emails including the false exam claim?

Then even if they secretly side with me, what are they going to do? Whatever they suggest the maths dept will need to be on side to actually make it happen. How likely is that given that I've just demonstrated that they are not interested in genuinely challenging every pupil and that the HoD is a liar?

All that will happen, is that I will get the maths dept's back up. Ds1 will be uncomfortable, if he gets to hear fo any of it, and Ds1 still won't be taught (but I might have to try to move my children to a new school).

Sorry, but fighting on seems like the only outcome for me and Ds would be that we lose.

Christ, there's endless maths to interest a bright child of 13. Some number theory supporting cryptography (modular arithmetic, cyclic groups, elliptic curves). Some abstract algebra (groups - not necessarily cyclic this time, rings, fields) based on every day things like musical scales. Some linear algebra, starting by describing transformations of shapes in terms of matrices and then looking at how they combine (which feeds back into groups, of course). Set theory, which tragically has pretty much disappeared from 11-16 and yet is absolutely vital for all maths and computer science after 18. A proper treatment of cardinality, which one would have thought a bright teenager would cope with (are there more real numbers than integers? Why?) Boolean algebra, truth tables, logic circuits. In essence, the whole "new math" agenda of the 1960s.

And instead we end up in a discussion about long multiplication.

Have you read or heard Jo Boaler? I would strongly suggest you seek her out via Amazon / YouTube etc.

Your son sounds like a perfectionist with a fixed mindset , who has been told he is "clever" and is now "afraid of being found out as a fraud".

The thing to do is to try to encourage him to see things as a challenge, and that hard work is far more important than "being clever".

There are lots of ways he can be challenged with even quite simple problems. I've seen UniversityMaths education students being challenged with ways to solve the area of a complex shape.

"because the SLT would ask if I'd spoken to the HoD about it. I'd say yes, he thinks Ds1 is challenged.
Then what - do i show the HoD's emails including the false exam claim?

Then even if they secretly side with me, what are they going to do? Whatever they suggest the maths dept will need to be on side to actually make it happen. How likely is that given that I've just demonstrated that they are not interested in genuinely challenging every pupil and that the HoD is a liar?"

Is the Head a bit crap too, then?

mummytime - you are right, he does have the fixed mindset.

its my fault. When he was still a baby, I'd ask him to point at things in the shape sorter, or tell me the noise a cat makes. When he got it right. I'd give praise: I would say "well done". or Good Boy. Or Clever boy!

That carried on for years, long before I had any opinion about whether he really was a clever boy or not. My friends, in-laws and siblings, by coincidence, all had babies that same year. I think there were about 15 babies in 2002. Now, a large number of them are very able, a few are at some of the most academically-selective schools in the country. So, TBH DS1 looked normal.

I had no idea that I was storing up any problem at all. Now, i am careful to only talk about effort, but its too late, i think. the damage is done.

No the head, by reputation, is excellent. I've never actually spoken to him. But what are they supposed to do? If you were the HT what would you do? What could you do?

If the Head is excellent he or she needs to know that the Head of Maths isn't doing a particular element of their job properly. What should then happen is that measures are put in place to change things. That's one of the things Heads are for!

And if the governing body is effective, copying the letter to the appropriate governor will mean it won't be allowed to be swept under the carpet. Of course if it's not a very good school with ineffective structures, there's not much you can do. But not, you certainly haven't reached the end of the road yet.

I am the mother of a very able child with anxiety, I understand how it can be.
I'm also married to a gifted mathematician, who knew more maths than his teachers by Y9!

May I suggest more investigative maths, rather than NC/GCSE stuff?
Problems which are more about the journey/process than the solution?
Perhaps look Dictionary of Curious and Interesting Numbers by David Wells. His book of puzzles is good too. The Chicken From Minsk by Yuri Chernyak is v good, out of print, but available second hand; goes to a high level, but there are things in there my 9yo can tackle (able in maths, but not gifted). Anything by Martin Gardner will be good, but particularly his puzzle books.
Ian Stewart's From here to Infinity, and Does God Play Dice (may be too hard just yet), Game, Set & Math, Letters to a young mathematician.
De Sautoy's Music of the Primes.
Books by Alex Bellos, George Polya (particularly How to Solve It).
Ivars Peterson's The Jungle of Randomness and The Mathematical Tourist are interesting. Roger Penrose. James Gleick's books are good, try Chaos or his book on Isaac Newton.

The stuff about praise really resonates. Has he ever learnt an instrument? They're very good for teaching that hard work brings improvement, and noticeable results.
They're also good for socialising, team work, pulling as mathematics is very much a solo pursuit, and he will need something to counter-act all the hours of thinking, alone in his room. It would also give his hands something to do whilst noodling over the latest conundrum. (DH is a pacer, and he drives me INSANE, even after twenty years, when he's working on a problem. He does play piano, but his wrists are bad now he's older).

You can overcome fixed mindsets Joy200 Boaler and Carol Dwork (hope I've got the spellings right), have both done work with Uni students and younger.

So rather than working through a Maths textbook, get some of the fun and puzzling Maths books and work with him to try and solve the puzzles. Maybe do them separately and then discuss how you each approached them, help each other understand and solve things. Work with him rather than "teach".

My own children were surprised when I said some infinities are bigger than others. Hopefully they will think about that and it will intrigue them.

Understanding why things work rather than just remembering a method makes everything more fun.

On that topic, both of you should read Bounce by Matthew Syed.

yy to music/instrument lessons.

DD is much younger, but does both swimming and instrument lessons once a week - she's not a natural athlete and we've seen real improvement from consistent practice with the swimming over the last 3 years, and the same is now evident with her music too.

I'm also making a note of the books above, thanks Racundra.

I'll get a couple of those books as a trail to see if I can get DS1 to be interested. Maths is just something he does - his real interest is in another subject completely, and for learning generally.

How I wish I could get him to persevere learning an instrument! My mum even offered to buy the instrument and pay for the lessons. He has started to learn three different ones because the school demanded it. I'm tone deaf, so I wouldn't have a clue, but the teachers tell me he is good and shows promise. Ds1 has decided that he is awful and that the teachers are just saying that. Each time, he's given it up as soon as he possibly could.

He's more willing to do sport, even though he's not that good at it. I think he enjoys it, and I hope he'll keep playing.

Sport is good too, however in my experience, mathaticians are generally indoor types!

Mine too, Racundra. It was my degree and my career was based upon it, so I've spent a lot of time in the company of mathematicians. Quiet and non-flamboyant is almost the norm (which is why I am so surprised that the maths dept require to see loud enthusiasm).

Surely all the maths teachers did a first degree in maths where they spent years attending lectures and tutorials with other would-be mathematicians? Even if they aren't introverts themselves, you'd think they'd have noticed that its not that unusual.

My own children were surprised when I said some infinities are bigger than others.

The concept of infinity is so often mis-used (with loose talk about division by zero yielding infinity, which opens up yet more complex areas) that correcting those mis-conceptions and explaining about, as you say, the different infinities that characterise the set of integers and the set of reals, is a gateway to a whole load of interesting number theory, set theory and other concepts. That there are an infinite number of integers, but the infinite set of integers does not contain infinity (ie, you can't combine two integers to produce |Z|) is itself fascinating.

OK my tuppence worth....

the anxiety thing and the stretching thing - two separate things. You're seeing them as related and they're not. He's an anxious kid. he'd be anxious if he was working at Level 3 in maths. That needs dealing with by you. Not sure how, but am sure if you post about the anxiety, not the maths, you'll get plenty of suggestions.

the maths thing - as others have said, why the fuck are you teaching him stuff he'll be learning at school in a year or two? GCSE Maths, as I understand anyway, is dull as ditch water to a gifted mathematician. The advice is ALWAYS to stretch them sideways, give them problem based stuff to do, stuff that actually makes them think - there are plenty of resources out there, and some have been posted on this thread.

Thirdly, not sure that the fact that he was assessed as Level 8 but is being taught level 7 stuff is an issue. He won't have been taught every single maths topic there is to level 8 standard - there are far too many. New topics that he's never been taught before he will obviously have to be taught the level 6 and level 7 stuff before he can be taught the level 8 stuff.

Fourthly - yes get onto the head, with the email trail. he needs to know his head of maths isn't prepared to stretch his able students. Unless you bring it to his attention how else is he to know and act on it.

Titchy, how do you know how much level 8 Ds knows? You must be assuming that he got taught level 8 stuff at school, but that would be incorrect and would make them inconsistent for going back to level 7 lessons.

I taught him the level 8 stuff, as it happens. I got a list - from the teacher - and I taught it. She acknowledged that she'd only taught level 7 that year so far but dS had a level 8 target so he would need to do something out of school or he'd miss the target. It wasn't that long a list which is why DS1 and I covered it really quickly.

The school taught Ds1 the level 7 stuff when he was in year 7, before they mixed up the top set with the 2nd top set.

You really, really need to go to the Head.

I think you are too worried by targets - if the school doesn't teach him anything for his level 8 target and he doesn't achieve it, then that is the schools problem. (I am totally confident that by GCSE he will have learnt everything he needs).

My own DC have had crazy targets, ones that they couldn't meet because none of the tests actually tested that level.
One has a starting grade for a subject this year which is higher than her current level or target grade - I am going to ask about this as it's just crazy.

I have actually trained myself to spend far more time talking about effort grades than targets etc.

A lot of our young people are having mental health issues, as the emphasis on targets and grades is putting them under too much pressure.

And a lot of the best Mathematicians in the world were "slow" at school.

You need to complain if the school are not teaching him to achieve his targets. Not teach him yourself instead.
And the reaction of Primary schools to concerns like this are not necessarily the same as secondary schools.

surely all the maths teachers did a first degree in maths

Surely you jest. You will be lucky if your DS is being taught by a teacher with a PGCE in maths let alone a maths degree. A lot of KS3 maths is being taught by anyone with an A-level (or possibly even not).

A teacher on another thread said that they had met one maths teacher in 20 years of teaching with a maths degree.