"don't know" versus "Can't be bothered"

[ChasTittyBeltUp]

DD is 7 in year 3 of a new school and the teacher wants to get her assessed. She says DD's comprehension is behind her peers. DD is a free reader and has a reading age of 11 (or did last we heard at her old school)

She refuses to answer comprehension questions a lot...(mostly) but I KNOW that she understands the concepts...she's quite sophisticated in her use of language and has a very funny off beat sense of humour. She could speak at one and had full and lengthy conversations with me at 18 motnths.

Her teacher I think is at her wits end and this is why she wants DD assessed. I know I might be blinded by her being my lovely DD....but I just don't see that she has any difficulties processing information which is what the teacher thinks.

How CAN she when she is able to read a book and then discuss it with me afterwards...always asking pertinent and challenging questions?

(Of course the teacher the expert mind you and I am not saying she's anything other than that)

However...if something bores DD she is almost impossible to move....rather bloody minded... she struggles with maths but her spelling ability is excellent.

What's up with my DD then? Any ideas or suggestions as to what it could be? She is good socially...lots of invitations etc...forms some nice friendships...but she IS self contained.

Do you think she could be afraid of giving the "Wrong" answer? Is she a bit of a perfectionist? I had VERY similar with my DD when she was in year 1, teacher would not move her up the book bands because she would not answer questions about what she was reading, in fact used to sit and squirm and look very uncomfortable - teachers words - when I, like you, knew what she was capable of at home. Very frustrating. I guess she was a bit scared of the whole situation (wouldn't you be at 5?). So we went to and fro for many weeks, me going in to show her (lovely BTW) teacher what she was reading at home, what I had recorded in her diary, book reviews she had written, workbooks that she had done etc. To cut a long story short she did considerably better than her predicted grade at the end of year 1 (How desperate was I to go in and say I told you so) and we have not looked back. So to come back to the point I would just urge you to say to her to give it a go, no answer is going to be laughed at and to show what she is capable of. HTH.

Thank you Iamnot I have been recording what she does at home in her school diary and her teacher follows it and always comments....I haven't put any examples in as of yet...but I should I think.

I do think it is probably shyness to some extent.

they do it because they can. it is their mission in life to make you look like a delusional fool who is one of "those" parents. dd was rumbled when it came to reading and now she is doing it (possibly doing it) (see she has even got me doubting my own sanity) with maths.

shyness, lack of confidence, distractions of school, wanting to be right, fear of getting it wrong, being laughed at by other children could all be contributing.

I used to give ds joke books and books that would make him laugh. If he laughed then I knew that he understood what he was reading. You could also try giving her a book which was turned into a movie, like Charlottes Web. They usually make the movie slightly different so you can ask her to point these parts out to you.

Well, let the school assess. To be honest, there must be avalid reason for the school to be using up their ep budget on her, and it might be quite illuminating for you, the teacher, or dd herself! it certainly won't do any harm!

She sounds like any number of the kids who have spiky profiles for whatever reason, but if the teacher is suggesting lds, and you think the opposite, I would definitely let school pick up the tab for wechsler and wiat testing.

All great ideas in the interim though!

How long has DD been in the school? Is it the first time she has changed school - she may have felt very, very comfortable in her previous environment. If she has moved part-way through school year she may be finding it hard to build the relationship with the teacher that the others already have: she may feel the only way to get teacher's approval is to 'perform well' - perhaps this is how she felt her previous teacher valued her and is scared to get it wrong for new teacher. Maybe she has some feelings of anger and powerlessness at being moved (not uncommon in children) and this is a way for her to express it (without even necessarisly being congnitively aware that is what she is doing).
Ask for more details on the testing and who will administer it. Have they already done some assessment by learning support in the school which suggest there is cause to look further - or will they do this before going for an Ed. Psych evaluation? Ask about how they will explain the tests to DD and how they will explain to her why they are doing it. If they can reassure you on these points that it will be handled sensitively then go ahead with the testing. You have nothing to lose in gaining a fuller picture of what is going on with her.

Adoptmama she has been there since Spetember...she WAS very comfy in her old school. She began her new one at the begining of year three...the others had already been with this teacher in reception....so she knew them all.

I asked about the testing...it will be non stressful...she mentioned games and fun things...she said it would take place in the classroom...and that the others would have no idea what it was as there are always new people coming in and helping.

They did a little assesment which seemed to involve one picture...they asked DD what was happening within the scene on the picture card and she said "Don't know."

When I KNOW she would have.

I felt comfortable that the teacher would not reveal to DD what it was all about...the HT said they have done it lots of times with various kids and including some in her class already.

LadySybil what was the outcome for your son? Had he been flagged over comprehension too?

outofbody what do you mean by "spiky profile"? Do you mean high in some areas and low in others?

Also....I had a note in DDs homebook yesterday that DD had been given the role of the "Summariser" after the class had been read a story..and that when asked to summarise the tale in front of the class she had been reluctant but with encouragement she "Was able to lay out the main points of the story with no trouble...Good Girl!"

So if she can do this why is the teacher thinking along the lines of assessment instead of along the lines of "shy"??

Yes. Ds reads a lot and reads very quickly. He can finish a normal sized book in an evening (few hundred pages). I often had problems as his teacher wouldn't believe that he'd read the book or, if he had, that he'd understood it. I sent him in with something very silly one day and he sat, reading and laughing. She didn't ask again.

My DD reads well...and quite fast but not as fast as your DS! Did he get assessed? Also...is there any potential negative side to an assesment?

Interesting - these are my thoughts for what its worth... I think my DD and I read similarly - quickly to get a feel for a book. This is different to the skills needed to do comprehension. When my Dd did her 11 plus she found comprehension quite tricky which I found strange given she was in theory near top of class for english in terms of reading age and creative writing. But looking at the comprehension questions, some of them were so basic and required no deep thinking that I think she just didn't 'get' them. It was another skill that needed learning rather than a 'problem' in her case. A few practices later she was fine. Also comprehension can be set for lots of different styles of writing which can be offputting if she is used to reading just one style of book.

No, he's never been assessed, there was no need. They did give him a computer assessment (answer questions about the book) and asked him to write a book review a few times though. He's been reading since he was 3, I taught him how to squeeze the letters together to make a word and it just clicked. He started off reading the Mr Men books and I gave him joke books after he'd read all of these. He'd walk around the city centre reading and laughing. Every now and again he'd read a funny one to me so I know he understood them. He was reading Roald Dahl by the time he started reception (Charlie and the Chocolate Factory etc) and the school didn't really know what to do with him.
I don't think there's anything negative towards assessment, if they need support then it's better to find out early. There's a lot of other ways to test comprehension though.

Funnily enough, one of the only things I remember from my own primary reports is that my comprehension was excellent. But saying that, like you lucysmum I also read very quickly...I can take in a paragraph almost at a glance.

When it came to ALevel English Lit. I HATED it. I hated taking things apart when I wanted to simply enjoy them.

I'm a published writer now...and broadcast...so it disturbs me that DD is struggling.

(Please do NOT look at my spelling and grammar on here as a measure of my skills! I am terrible with both but knock out a mean radio sketch all the same!)

I think Bond do comprehension papers, you could have a look in WHSmiths. Ds did some of these as well but he likes tests

LadyS So you think there's no harm? I have been comforted somewhat by the HTs responses when I chatted to her about it. I suppose I don't want her labelled as anything but herself...but I do realise that labels can help the DC when it comes to getting what they need.

No, I'm all for assessments when they are needed. I'd steer clear of IQ testing though, they don't really serve any purpose for the child. Ds is being assessed for dyspraxia/ASD at the moment, it will be useful to explain why he is how he is and will be useful for getting him support.

What do you write?

I write radio comedy, drama, short fiction, product descriptions and web content Sybil.

Oh, that sounds cool. I write children's fiction.

Try the Bond assessment papers. Turn it into a game so it's fun. I wouldn't worry about an assessment. A lot of bright children don't like to explain their understanding, it's quite tedious for them. We used to have a constant battle trying to get ds to write more then the bare minimum because the teachers wanted to see what he could do before they gave him harder work. Ds would do the bare minimum so he could move on to the next piece of work.

Ah...I can't seem to get into children's fiction! Too much work! I am trying not to worry about DD....but I feel a bit like a mathematician would feel like upon being told her DD was awful at maths!

I will look at the Bond assessment papers thanks. Might be good as some extra help at home...her teacher has suggested questions for me to ask her but DD looks at me like when I do. She gets the idea that it's patronising I think.

I trained as a children's nurse for a couple of years which really helped me to adapt my language. I think I'd be a bit as well but at least I'd have the skills to be able to help. If he was struggling with maths I wouldn't have a clue!

I'd be honest with DD. Tell her that the teacher's worried that she doesn't fully understand what she's reading, then I'd discuss it with her to find out why she's saying that she doesn't know. It may be that she can't be bothered, then you can give her a nudge in the right direction. You could also feign ignorance, 'I've not read that book, what is it about?' (I've done this a few times).

The trouble is that I expect more because of my own profession.