colleague smoking while 8 months pregnant - aaaah!

[Lil]

Am sure I'll be trashed by the 'live and let live' brigade, but I am so-o-o angry with a colleague of mine who is merrily puffing away on her ciggies whilst very preggers. I just bumped into her outside the office in the smokers den and I was this close to having a real go at her. Wish I had, it would have calmed me down..am sitting here very pissed off and irate!!!!

Has anyone here ever let rip?

I have been following this thread with some interest and also a degree of dread. To my mind it falls into the category of interesting and spirited discussions that spiralled a bit out of hand and people ended up feeling hurt.

I love mumsnet, and I have taken part in my fair share of deeply felt debates. I would hate to see them stop. However I think that we all have to take a step back and admit that we may take a particular decision but others may take another, and of itself that does not make someone a bad mother.

We all make choices for or children every day. I chose not to smoke, but I did have a drink occasionally when I was pregnant. That doesn?t make me a bad mother. I do not that that there is a single person that posts to mumsnet who would deliberately do something to their child, born or unborn that they honestly feel would harm them. The vast majority of mothers who smoke/drink/circumcise their babies/insert behaviour here, don?t do it thinking, ?Oh goodie that will injure them?.

We all look at someone who makes a different choice to us a little sideways and wonder why they do these things. And when we are doing that to them, someone else is doing it to us. What is fair to us is not fair to someone else. We all of us draw a line somewhere.

This is not to say that I want these vigorous debates to stop, I don?t. But in the end we all have to remember that we are doing a difficult, stressful job, that lasts 24/7 (SAHM and working mums) and is often thankless. So the very last thing that any of us needs to do is to start putting each other down.

M2T, I have to say I think you're fab and didn't think you were attacking anyone in the slightest...I'm behind you all the way!!! Anyway, how many of you out there know that to take in one breath of the fumes that come from a bus has the same effect as smoking 60 cigarettes? Should we all run screaming from the good old number 47? Lets stop throwing smokers onto pyres of their own fag butts and return to a place a little less reminiscent of Salem. We all make decisions every day of our lives that effect both us and those around us and we're all trying our best to do the right thing. BTW, I did smoke a little whilst pregnant, but I NEVER, repeat NEVER went near a bus...

LOL Ding!!!!

Is that right re buses? Sounds doubtful to me (she says hopefully, living on a main road....)

Ok here's a question - the internet's a good place for straw polls.

You're a smoking mum.

First scenario: You are in mid fag when a stranger( another mother probably)comes up to you and starts telling you to stop becuase it harms your baby. Is this a wake up call? has anyone here actually stopped smoking in pregnancy because of a stranger's comment?

Second scenario: The same but the anti smoking commnts come from a friend, relative or colleague. Is this more or less of a wake up call?

Lil said in her original message that she was close to having a real go at her colleague for smoking. What I am getting at, do we think from our own experiences it would have made a difference if she had?

sorry if this question has already been chewed over and spat out!

Not liking things that other people do doesn't translate into having the right to tell them what to do (unless you're responsible for them, ie they're kids and you're their mum)

I dunno CAM, the government thinks it can!

Tigermoth, can I reword your post and change smoking to drinking? I would have (and still do) the odd pint of Guinness and couple of glasses of red wine whilst pregnant (not all at the same time I hasten to add!). A friend of mine who knew that I drank, told me that she never could because there is no way she would give a newborn a glass of wine, which is what potentially we are doing whenever we drink. She didn't come across as having a go at me as such, but her comment did make me think. I now have no more than 3 units of alcohol a week, as whenever I'm tempted to have more I just remember her analogy.

Exactly CAM - I wouldn't dream of telling a stranger not to smoke (not sure whether that's because I believe I shouldn't, or whether I'd just be frightened she'd deck me) but it doesn't stop me thinking she is wrong to do so. And I wasn't actually telling anybody on this thread not to smoke - just pointing put that it was harmful to your babies, and IMO very wrong

well put Prufrock - exactly how I feel.

Ha, just realised I can't answer my own question becasue I am a non smoker anyway and have never, yes never, actually seen a pregnant woman smoking and none of my friends smoked ( or drank hugely) in front of me while pregnant - what a sheltered life I lead

However, I did have an unsettling conversation with a pregnant woman I had a passing acquaintance with. I was in my local at the time, surrounded by people I knew. The woman struck up a conversation with me. She was about 5 months pregnant. I asked her how she felt etc etc as you do, and she told me how she'd only realised she was pregnant about a month before. She said how much drink, cigarettes and the odd illegal susbstance she had got through witout realising she was pregnant all that time. She was drinking something vaguely alcoholic at the time, but I didn't know if it was her first glass or her fourth. She told me her doctor said that since her baby was healthy and had survied those months so far, not to worry so much now, but just cut down if she could. I nodded away, feeling a bit uneasy, but since she wasn't actually doing anything apart from having a single drink I felt there was nothing I could say. I had drunk alcohol from time to time in the second trimester myself.

It was only later that my dh and a few other people who knew her better told me that had announced that she was pregnant ages ago and had disregarded advice to reduce her intake.

If this was so, she was in deep denial about this when she spoke to me. She had constructed an alternative story and seemed, I think, half way to believing it herself. She definitely didn't want criticism from me, but very obviously wanted spend and hour or so chatting about her pregnancy to someone.

Even when I knew this, I had no thought of going up to tackle her. Perhaps I should have, but if someone lies so convincingly, how do you know what is gong on underneath?

tigermoth, I think that part of the problems is that although we all know the facts none of us realy believe that it will happen to us. Somewhere between 1 in 3 and 1 in 2 smokers die as a result of smoking. If you put a pill in front of someone and said 50:50 chance it may make you feel good or it will kill you now, this minute, no-one would take it (apart from a few people who are mentally ill). That is the risk with smoking, but the death is deferred, 'invisible', not linked in time to the cigarettes.

We can quote the stats but heart of hearts no-one thinks that it will happen to them. We all feel imortal to some degree. The same is true of all risk taking behavior. No-one speeds thinking it will end in their death, we all know that a single bout of lovemaking can get us pregnant but people still take the risk.

And I think that it is true over the smoking in pregnancy issue. If you were to give someone the pill (with corrected odds for the chance of damage to their newborn) I doubt that people would take it. But the link to the cigarette, while real, doesn't seem so 'believeable'

hmb, I completely agree with you about the denial of risk thing that surrounds smoking, thanks for that. As I'm now a smug ex-smoker I'm enjoying snippets like this.

Denial of risk - thats exactly it. I was a hardened 20 a day Marlboro Lights girl until I was listening to radio 4 one morning and heard someone saying that if you give up before you are 35 you will have the same life expectancy as a non-smoker. Bing! It was as though someone had turned the light on and I finally realised the possibility that I might NOT live as long as a non-smoker! I panicked - and gave up after a few days. It was hellish but I never went back thank goodness, that was five years ago.

Re: smoking while pg, I find it hard that mothers can bear to do it when the information about the effect it has on the foetus is so overwhelmingly negative, but I suppose it is their choice.

I looked up something on the internet once about drug use in pregnancy, they rated all drugs from A (harmless to fetus) to X (proven to be harmful to fetus). So called hard drugs were C-rated, the only X rated one was alcohol.

Saw the "smoking babies" advert again during Big Brother last night.

The only thing I had to give up during pregnancy and breastfeeding were peanuts - I used to eat them once a day.

So I can't imagine how hard it must be to give up a real addiction forming habit like smoking, but I would hope that I would, knowing the dangers posed to my baby. Having miscarried once before ds, I think pregnancy has enough risks and dangers without choosing to add another, but , I have never smoked.

In case anybody now has a real struggle with this issue, this is the website that was advertised on TV last night. I've linked to the giving up smoking when pregnant page. Note is says during pregnancy, I would take that to imply that if you really are addicted then to aim for at least 9 months of not smoking, then after that it really is your choice because your temporary little passenger has jumped off.

Tips for stopping smoking during pregnancy

I failed on giving up peanuts. Guess I'm a really bad mother.

Had one cigerette when knew was pregnant - but that was at time of imense stress and I think that I would have imploded if I had not done something - It was just after I had been told that the results of the nuchal test showed that my baby had a one in 150 chance of having DS - at 5 with no history this was quite a big deal (sure that it is with everyone else but at my age I was just not expecting anything to be wrong!!) Had CVS and all was ok - never picked up another until husband smacked me one and have about 5-10 a day now although do not smoke indoors and never around children.

Saw a lady outside the office today and thought she was pregnant - she was puffing away - on second glance realised she was just a bit porky around th middle - could have made huge mistake though if I had approached her!!!

Here i come with my little opinion, my friend smoked throughout her first two pregnancies and both children are healthy, she stopped when she was pregnant with her third and he has spent more time in hospital than at home. I myself was a smoker and didn't know i was expecting ds until i was 10 weeks, i gave up over the course of a week and never touched them again until he died. I have been pregnant three times this year, each time i have stopped smoking straight away, as i know how much damage it can do, but there are times of stress and i crave a fag. I myself would not choose to smoke when pregnant but i do understand that it is easier for some to give up and harder for others. I never said to my friend that she was wrong, because it was her choice as an adult to smoke, i did ask her a couple of times if she was planning on giving up. I think this topic is a mine field. Right or wrong it all comes down to personal choice. I wouldn't smoke in pregnancy but that is my personal choice. We all know the risks and if you choose to take the risk then there is nobody else to blame but yourself. No offence intended to anyone!

I eat peanuts all the time .... oops!

used to smoke and found it impossible to give up - tried many many times. Dh was getting increasingly fed up about it, to the point I did give up & told him, but then started again & didn't tell him. Smoked in secret for ages. Then I found out I was pg & stopped there & then & haven't smoked since. BUT< it was pure good fortune I just totally lost all desire to smoke. I didn't have to struggle to give up, I just mentally no longer had any desire too. Like I said, pure good luck. If I hadn't, miraculously, had this reaction, goodness knows how I would have managed, with the cravings, the disapproval etc. I personally wouldn't say anything, because you're not going to say anything they don't know & it will just lead to anger, resentment, stress.

As it happens, while I was basicallt tea total for the last 2 pgs & was for the 1st trimester of this, I started having the occasional drink after 14 weeks, and really wished I hadn't, because now I am suffering terribly with cravings for beer. And if I have one I want 3. I have actually done this a coupl eof times, including last night. i left the 2nd half of the 3rd bottle and spent the whole night having nightmares and horrendous guilt feelings that I'd hurt the baby & why couldn't I have not taken it etc etc. Why could I give up the last 2 times & the 1st 3rd of this and now feel such strong cravings???

It's so easy to condem, but you don't know how they are feeling or how you might feel in a coupl eof years when you're struggling with something in a later pg.

Couldn't agree more Monkey!! and on the subject of beer, i am in my first trimester and for the last week have had a craving for a Bud. I did have a mini one last week but it almost went down in one. Very strange!

My mother in law smoked through both her pregnancies, granted this was back in the 70's, but her Dr told her that it was better to carry on smoking but to cut down as much as possible rather than to just take away something that the body was used to. both her sons were prefectly healthy and still are.

I smoked until I found out I was pregnant and then stopped by cutting down to one a day then stopping completely. towards the end I did have the odd one or two now and again, usually at work due to stress, and felt incredibly guilty the whole time. I have a friend who has smoked through both her pregnancies and her children are fine .

Have since taken up smoking again, naughty me, but never smoke around my child who infact doesn't even know that I smoke. If I ever have another baby I will give up and try really hard not to go back to it again afterwards.

and I don't like to see heavily pregnant women puffing away but since I had the odd relapse while pregnant I guess I can't pass comment, I wouldn't say anything to a total stranger anyway I'd be to scared of what they might say back.

as a non-smoker can I just point something out please.

If you live with a non-smoker and sneak the odd ciggy your partner WILL know.

Smokers never seem to realise that a ciggy leaves a very distinctive smell, on your clothes, hair and breath.

Your dp may choose not to say anything (presumably cos they realise you must be under stress to have sneaked a fag anyway) but must realise.

Oh, and I remember hating giving my father "proper kisses" when I was little, cos he smoked.

I'm not moralising, you have a right to smoke if you want (even in a restaurant if you enjoy it), just letting you know we know

A couple of things... someone said, of a friend, that "it was her choice as an adult to smoke". the baby has no choice in the matter - is that fair?

And Easy, in a similar vein I disagree with your comment that smokers "have a right to smoke if you want (even in a restaurant if you enjoy it)". Of course they have a right to smoke, but I also have a right to eat my meal without breathing in smoke that's already been round soneone's tar filled lungs!

easy, I disagree that the non-smoker must know a partner smokes. I can 100% guarantee that because dh didn't know. I'd always manage to shower, eat & change clothes before I went near him (true addiction or what). He absolutely didn't know because I went to such lengths to conceal it. I did slip up once, and yes, he spotted it straight away. I claimed it was a one off & just made sure I was more careful in future.

Thank God I lost the urge, I had so many attempts to give up in the past. I could easily have been one of those 8 month pg women sneaking a fag, putting up with comments & looks & feeling desperate