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Aspartame has been given a 'posh' new name, but don't be fooled, this stuff is toxic.

218 replies

solo · 18/02/2010 01:18

I don't know how many other parents ban this stuff from their Dc's diet.
I don't let it pass my Dc's lips if I can help it.
The link makes some interesting reading.

TOXIC

OP posts:
MsHighwater · 13/07/2010 18:32

jojo234, not "bliss" so much as "surprisingly prevalent".

jojo234 · 13/07/2010 21:57

DBennett: "So the video is the tip of evidence iceberg.
Would be able to link to the best evidence that supports this viewpoint."

If you mean 'is there plenty of evidence that supports the video's viewpoint?' then the answer is yes.

DBennett: "As you know, I've linked to the most recent peer reviewed literature summary on the topic which seems not to support the videos assertions."

You've linked to some studies that do not support the video's assertations, yes, however these studies are not the conclusive proof that you are making out. I have already provided comment by Soffritti on two of the studies you linked to (Gallus + Lim) :

"Both studies consider the eating habits of a large population of males and females 50?70 years of age in the 1990s. Given the time frame of these surveys and the commercialization of aspartame in the 1980s, the subjects? potential use of the sweetener could not have exceeded 10?15 years. It is difficult to believe that this limited adult period of exposure to APM could confirm or exclude a potential carcinogenic risk."

They are not the 'up-to-the-minute' studies you are making out.

In addition the following in response to your study 'Consumption of aspartame-containing beverages and incidence of hematopoietic and brain malignancies.':

Aspartame and Incidence of Brain Malignancies:
"The Lim et al. study included members of the AARP of ages 50 to 71 years. Aspartame was not approved by the Food and Drug Administration as a food additive until July 1981. The population of the Lim et al. study grew during a period when aspartame use was considerably less than it is now, and none would have consumed aspartame as children"

And

"More than half of all Americans are estimated to use aspartame everyday, including many pregnant women and children. The negative findings in the Lim et al. study do not prove that there are no long-term effects of aspartame. The older study population analyzed and the limited ingestion of aspartame evaluated cannot reflect the long-term public-health effects of aspartame that may begin prenatally and run throughout a lifetime. In light of the limited nature of the study by Lim et al. and recent reports of Soffritti finding that aspartame significantly increases the risks of tumors in rodents, with a doubled risk in those in which exposures begin prenatally, the Food and Drug Administration should review its approval of aspartame."

DBennet:"So, as I ask you again, what research convinced you that aspartame/fluoride is so dangerous.
Do you seem convinced by it and such powerful evidence would be something I'd like to consider."

I've already provided Soffritt's 2007 studyLife-Span Exposure to Low Doses of Aspartame Beginning during Prenatal Life Increases Cancer Effects in Rats, that demonstrated aspartame's "multipotential carcinogenicity at a dose level close to the acceptable daily intake for humans. Furthermore, the study demonstrates that when life-span exposure to aspartame begins during fetal life, its carcinogenic effects are increased."

You described it as a "discredited rat study". You, by your own admission, from not having any knowledge of the safety aspects of aspartame at all, did less than 20 minutes research before deciding what was the best available evidence.

However 12 U.S. environmental health experts found the second study to be so important that they wrote their concerns to the FDA in June 2007:

They agreed that "chronic animal feeding studies are accepted widely as valid predictors of likely carcinogenic risks for humans: importantly, all acknowledged human carcinogens when tested adequately in animals are also carcinogenic, and many known human carcinogens were first discovered in animals."

Here's a selection of further studies that illustrate some of the dangers of aspartame:

Direct and indirect cellular effects of aspartame on the brain. 2008 (
Full Document )

The researchers found a number of direct and indirect changes that occur in the brain as a result of high consumption levels of aspartame, leading to neurodegeneration.

Effects of Aspartame on Maternal-Fetal and Placental Weights, Length of Umbilical Cord and Fetal Liver: A Kariometric Experimental Study "This study suggests that consumption of products containing aspartame be avoided during the gestational period."

Effects of Aspartame on Fetal Kidney: A Morphometric and Stereological Study 2007
"Our observations that aspartame toxicity became more pronounced following its dilution and heating to 40° C, also agreed with those of Tsang (1985) who also used the experimental model. Their study reports that any form of heating of aspartame, rapidly causes the formation of diketopiperazine (DKP) and free phenylalanine. Significant amounts of DKP are also formed when aspartame is stored in solution at room temperature, but heating considerably hastens this process."

Ultrastructural aspects concerning the hypothalamus-pituitary complex reactivity following chronic administration of Aspartame in juvenile rats:
"The experimental results obtained as a consequence of the chronic administration of ASP show that there is an increased sensibility of the immature brain and of the internal secretion of the adenohypophysis in the juvenile, prepubertal stage of ontogenetic development. The degenerative aspects of brain and pituitary observed in Aspartame-treated rats suggests that it is reasonable to assume that the same infant-to-adult relationship would be true for the Aspartame consumption in humans to children in the prepubertal period of development, especially."

There's also a wealth of information:

Betty Martini on Alex Jones Tv"ASPARTAME"1/4 (Parts 2-5 show on the right hand side)

DBennett · 14/07/2010 10:17

I didn't think at any point I described the evidence as "conclusive" or "up to the minute".
And when I checked it turned out I hadn't.

Please don't create a straw man to argue against, it does a diservice to both sides of this debate.

I'll run through the rat studies first, as they are lower down in the hierachy of evidence.
You posted links to papers which concluded that aspartame was dangerous during rat pregnancy.

Eevn assuming the rest of the methodology is sound (something I'm not qualified to judge), the size of the groups studied were 5,5 and 8 rats respectively.

Given the tiny size of these experiments and the uncertainty of using rat models would give this data low weight in isolation.

You also referred to Soffritt et al but this has been discredited here.

You have concerns about two of the many human studies that have tried to address the issue of risk and aspartame.
They are legitmate criticisms of epidemiological research.

I don't think they discount all those studies but it is right to realise the limits of current knowledge.

But, as I have said before, the best available evidence points to there being no excess from aspartame consumption.

You have consisitantly said that aspartame causes cancer, even going so far as to to label it "biological warfare, genocide and treason".

The evidence does not support this.

I am unable to make a comment on this study as it is trapped behind a paywall and the absract gives no information on the nature of the study.
I will say that it stimulated conflicting reponses here and no positive citations.

It's possible it's critical to the issue.
But unlikely.

As for your comment on taking 20mins to decide what was the best available evidence, perhaps I have been unclear.

I knew (from quite a bit of training) what would constitute the best available evidence.
It took me 20mins to find this level of evidence and then find out what conclusion this evidence supported.

If the evidence had been different my posts would have been different.

jojo234 · 14/07/2010 11:04

Dbennett: "I am unable to make a comment on this study as it is trapped behind a paywall and the absract gives no information on the nature of the study.
I will say that it stimulated conflicting reponses here and no positive citations."

I gave the link in my post for the full document. Here it is again:

Direct and indirect cellular effects of aspartame on the brain. 2008

Your link to the conflicting responses - I can't see any abstract or summary there or any text.

DBennett · 14/07/2010 11:44

Thanks for that.

The paper doesn'tinclude any new data at all.

It's a review of the plausability of possible mechanisms through which aspartame might be toxic.

It contains no evidence on the question either way.

It shouldn't be ignored but our discussion (and the scientific question in general) seems to have moved onto trials from a mechanistic and theoretical discussion.

And which I repeat, the weight of which evidence supports no excess risk from aspartame consumption.

My link is to the critical response, there is no abstract, and it's behind a paywall.
It's placement in the journal indicates that it's critical as does the author response (also behind a paywall) in a later issue.

I had a look at the loveforlife website and couldn't see either follow up there.

But I found it hard to navigate round without getting distracted by essays on hwo dinosaurs never existed and how the moon was towed to earth by aliens.

Do you know if they're there?

DBennett · 14/07/2010 11:48

Actually, I won't ask you to look.

I kept on looking and stumbled across some really nasty and ignorant stuff (not linked to aspartame or health in anyway).

I assume you're not a regular so be a little wary if you're going to have a look for the follow ups.

jojo234 · 14/07/2010 12:27

I haven't checked out the loveforlife website. The site is not relevant as the link was just to allow readers to access the full study ( Direct and indirect cellular effects of aspartame on the brain), normally behind a paywall, that was published in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition in 2008.

"The aim of this study was to discuss the direct and indirect cellular effects of aspartame on the brain, and we propose that excessive aspartame ingestion might be involved in the pathogenesis of certain mental disorders and also in compromised learning and emotional functioning"

And they concluded:

"From all the adverse effects caused by this product, it is suggested that serious further testing and research be undertaken to eliminate any and all controversies surrounding this product."

Dbennett: "the weight of which evidence supports no excess risk from aspartame consumption."

Ok, so you've moved away from saying ""best available evidence", "most recent and best data" and "consensus of the experts" and now are saying that the "weight of evidence supports no excess risk".

Have you considered that the industry funds many of the studies that show no excess of risk, so a lot of that 'weight' comes from industry sponsored studies?

Dbennett: "My link is to the critical response, there is no abstract, and it's behind a paywall.
It's placement in the journal indicates that it's critical as does the author response (also behind a paywall) in a later issue."

All it says is "There really is no controversy." You've said previously that you wouldn't pay for documents behind a paywall so far away from your area of interest. Has this changed?

If you have access to this document please give us a bit more to go on the "There really is no controversy."

DBennett · 14/07/2010 20:53

I wasn't suggesting that the website in some way tainted the paper, it was a simple observation and warning.

I do hope I never have to go there again though.

Back to the topic in hand, I don't think it's accurate to call the paper a study.

No experiments were done.
No data generated.

It's a review of possible mechanisms for aspartame toxicity.
It's not anything new and the vast majority of enviromental toxicologists appear to disagree with it.

In fact, nothing new is not a bad way to describe it.
Just look at the references, not one since 2005.
And the majority date are older, there are more from the 1980s than the 2000s.

I can't help thinking it doesn't add anything to the date.

And you're probably right about the reply, without being certain it's a critique it's probably best to ignore it.

What I do want to address is the issue of language that you raise.

"Ok, so you've moved away from saying ""best available evidence", "most recent and best data" and "consensus of the experts" and now are saying that the "weight of evidence supports no excess risk".

I would consider these to be interchangable as they all reflect the evidence heirachy and how it's framed.
I'll be happy to use one consistantly in future, although I fear I'll get bored.

You comment on funding is one you've made before.
And I don't think it's an accurate one.

All the papers I've been linking to come from medline listed journals.
They share a code of ethics and standards designed to combat the potential effects of bias.
For example, all the papers will have conflict of interest statements from the authors.

And even if there industry funded studies in the papers I linked to (I doubt it but it's possible), it wouldn't alter the quality of the science.
A methodology doesn't care where funding comes from after all.

jojo234 · 15/07/2010 14:15

I think your view that science is not affected by funding is very naive.

Please look again at how Aspartame got it's approval in the first place.

ASPARTAME SIDEBARS ASPARTAME?S HISTORY OF POLITICAL INTRIGUE:
"The first scientists who conducted clinical studies on aspartame, biochemist Dr. Harry Waisman and neuroscientist Dr. John W. Olney, gave it thumbs down. Searle?s only reaction to their findings was to use their own scientists ? or those of their favorite contractor ? throughout the rest of approval process. Waisman?s results, when reported to the FDA, were falsified, while Olney?s were hidden from sight, techniques the company would continue to use in all their dealings with the FDA and other government and consumer agencies concerning aspartame."

The Ecologist also confirmed this in their 2005 article Here for transcript or Here for scan

Interestingly that same article says the following:

"3 NOVEMBER 1987 - A US Senate hearing is held to address the issue of aspartame safety and labelling. The hearing reviews the faulty testing procedures and the 'psychological strategy' used by Searle to help ensure aspartame's approval. Other information that comes to light includes the fact that aspartame was once on a Pentagon list of prospective biochemical-warfare weapons."

mmm...that diet coke is sure tasting good now!

From the ANH Feature: EFSA defends controversial sweetener aspartame (again):
"As UK medical doctor and journalist John Briffa put it in his editorial on the subject in the British Medical Journal (BMJ), ??although 100% of industry funded (either whole or in part) studies conclude that aspartame is safe, 92% of independently funded studies have found that aspartame has the potential for adverse effects.?

The article continues:
"EFSA (European Food Safety Autority) has failed to adequately consider the Ramazinni Foundation?s research, and?possibly even more astonishing?it has ignored copious other scientific reports as well as the thousands of complaints by consumers who have suffered adverse reactions from taking aspartame.

Who are the scientists responsible for the evaluation? In an attempt to appear transparent, EFSA list the members of the panels responsible for their risk assessments. The previous AFC panel which oversaw aspartame, has now been incorporated into the ANS panel (that deals with food additives and nutrient sources added to food). Its 21 members are fully listed along with their interests and affiliations. Its chair is Prof John Larsen who is an advisor to the International Life Sciences Institute (ILSI) which represents a large number aspartame interests including Coca-Cola, Danone, Unilever, Kraft, Merisant (manufacturer of Equal, which recently filed for bankruptcy) and other well-known Big Food producers. Jean-Charles LeBlanc also advises ILSI, while Ivonne Rietjens goes one step further, sitting on the Board of Trustees of ILSI. In case you thought these was were only ILSI interests represented, Jürgen Konig advises Danone (that's not averse to including aspartame in its dairy products), while Dominique Parent-Massin advises Ajinomoto itself, which controls some 45% of the global market of aspartame.
So much for scientific independence."

And from the Guardian article WHO 'infiltrated by food industry', Norbert Hirschhorn, a Connecticut-based public health academic who searched archives set up during litigation in the US for references to food companies owned or linked to the tobacco industry, quoted as saying:

"One industry-led organisation, International Life Sciences Institute (ILSI), has positioned its experts and expertise across the whole spectrum of food and tobacco policies: at conferences, on FAO/WHO food policy committees and within WHO, and with monographs, journals and technical briefs."

The article continued:
"Some of the strongest criticism in the report "(by an independent consultant to the WHO) "is levelled against the ILSI, founded in Washington in 1978 by the Heinz Foundation, Coca-Cola, Pepsi-Cola, General Foods, Kraft (owned by Philip Morris) and Procter & Gamble".

The public thinks that they are being protected by bodies such as the FDA and the EFSA, but the truth is that the regulators are in bed with the food industry, and experts - toxicologists in particular - move easily "between private firms, universities, tobacco and food industries and international agencies" and this "creates the conditions for conflict of interest".

Public protection is secondary to the profits of big business. People need to wake up to this fact, and start really looking into what toxic cp is being put in their food.

DBennett · 15/07/2010 17:57

It's difficult to find any facts that can be verified in that Ecology which we haven't already discussed.

And if we're going to talk about bias, it is a headlining grabbing expose from a magazine with the tagline "Setting the enviromental Agenda since 1970".

John Briffa's letter was so comprehensably pulled apart at the time that I'm not sure any more time be spent on it.
I might also wonder at the accusation of financial bias coming from a man with a dozen books on the alternative health.

And again I say to you, even if there is conflict of interest it will have been disclosed and the methodology won't care how it's funded.

I was also intrigued b your comment about aspartame being investigated for it's potential as a bioweapon.
You do understand that toxicity is all about dose & exposure.
There is not a substance on this planet which is not harmful in large enough quantitie.

jojo234 · 15/07/2010 21:02

Dbennett: "John Briffa's letter was so comprehensably pulled apart at the time that I'm not sure any more time be spent on it."

Please link to where his letter is "comprehensively pulled apart". I can't find this.

Dbennett: "I might also wonder at the accusation of financial bias coming from a man with a dozen books on the alternative health."

Are you seriously suggesting we should equate a supposed 'financial bias' of one doctor selling ebooks and printed books, to the that of the diet industry, worth trillions of dollars to corporations???

"Dbennett: "And again I say to you, even if there is conflict of interest it will have been disclosed and the methodology won't care how it's funded. "

If the regulatory bodies (the doorway to approval), advising the FDA and EFSA, are filled with the food industry insiders on the payroll, the corruption starts there.

"Dbennett: "You do understand that toxicity is all about dose & exposure.
There is not a substance on this planet which is not harmful in large enough quantitie."

Yes, the FDA is receiving record numbers of complaints because we are all over-dosing on cabbages....come on!

DBennett · 17/07/2010 20:51

You're right, I should have linked to one of the half dozen responses to the Dr Briffa letter.
But time was pressing, sometimes real life intereferes with the internet.

And now I have the time, I quite fancy doing my own.

So lets start, and this is a minor point, that Dr Briffa did not have an editorial in the British Medical Journal.
He did a rapid response, an un-peer reviewed comment that was then printed as a letter to the editor in teh print ediiton of the BMJ.
The editorial, was like the the vast majority of the best evidence, supportive of the idea that there is no evidence of risk from aspartame consumption.

So Dr Briffa starts with some accusations or risk based on studies which he references below.
Unfortuantely for his point of view, most of them do not deal with aspartmame.
His references, 2,4,5,6& 7 deal with formaldehyde, which in the levels & methods of delivery described by the papers referenced is very dangerous.

However that is irrelevent to aspartame.
It is like discussing risk of Oxygen and Hydrogen exposure when talking about water ingestion.

Now reference 3 is a study involving feeding adult rats with doses of aspartame.
But again this seems to be discredited.

But it would be unkind (althoughly entirely fair) just to keep going at the science part of the Dr Briffa letter.
But I feel you want to talk about the money part more.

Dr Briffa refers to a website (which you have used before). This unpublished essay attempts to retrospectively identify whether industry funding could bias study findings.
The mechanism for finding and excluding papers is not sufficently reported to be sure of how/when it was done but it appears to stop by 1999.
So not covering the most recent, and by extension thebest evidence.

Of the 91 papers deemed to find additional risk:

6 were allergic reports.
I don't think anyoe has ever suggested that aspartame was alone in the world as the only thing no-one can be allergic to.

4 related to phenylketonuria.
Again, a well excepted contraindication for aspartame sonsumption.

9 were cell models.
Useful for guiding future research but a poor level of evidence.

36 were rodent studies.
Useful for guiding future research but a poor level of evidence.

10 were case reports.
Useful for guiding future research but a poor level of evidence.

3 I couldn't find (mostly were short, maybe letters?).

1, written by the essay's author tried to link retinal detachment to aspartame use, (this is ludicrous).

1 actually didn't find harm, mabe my mistake, maybe his.

16 were reviews. No new data.

10 suggested aspartame was linked to headaches, both as a migraine trigger and for chronic tension type headache.
It's possible but the studies couldn't exclude caffeince as the true trigger.

5 suggested effects of seizure. The data is mixed on this but the better studies tend towards no risk.

The one feature that appears time and again is the size and quality of this work.
It was done with very litle funds.

And I think that is the connection that J.Briffa fails to make.

Good science, espeically good epidemiology costs money.
And if I was deciding who was to pay for work on this, I'd want the companies selling it to pay for research.

Which is what happens.

Now I think it's worth making clear that the there are lots of ways that pharmaceutical companies can make their products seem better than they are.
But none of the papers I have been linking to show the charecteristic methodological changes which are the favoured tactic.

I also think it's odd to assume that non funded researchers are considered bias free: they might be trying to attract grants, media stories, selling books or advertising for patients.
This is easier if you find a "controversial finding", especially one on as sexy a topic as chemicals in food.

jojo234 · 26/07/2010 14:08

Dbennett:"You're right, I should have linked to one of the half dozen responses to the Dr Briffa letter."

The link you provided above only links to Dr Briffa's letter, and the only response to that letter is by a Consultant Anaesthetist discussing his and other colleagues / friends adverse affects to using diet coke, including "cardiac irregularities".

You may have been meaning Rapid Responses to: Aspartame and its effects on health

However John Briffa's letter wasn't "so comprehensably pulled apart at the time" as you stated. Quite the contrary, of the 14 responses only 1 was defending aspartame as safe, 11 were saying aspartame wasn't safe, and 2 were doing neither.

Not sure where you are getting your information from ?

You then refer to Dr Briffa's points and say: Dbennet:"Unfortuantely for his point of view, most of them do not deal with aspartmame. His references, 2,4,5,6& 7 deal with formaldehyde, which in the levels & methods of delivery described by the papers referenced is very dangerous."

Aspartame is metabolized in the gastrointestinal tract into three constituents?aspartic acid, phenylalanine, and methanol. It is the methanol that is transformed into formaldehyde and then to formic acid in the body.

"Formaldehyde is a deadly neurotoxin. An EPA assessment of methanol states that methanol "is considered a cumulative poison due to the low rate of excretion once it is absorbed. In the body, methanol is oxidized to formaldehyde and formic acid; both of these metabolites are toxic." The recommend a limit of consumption of 7.8 mg/day. A one-liter (approx. 1 quart) aspartame-sweetened beverage contains about 56 mg of methanol. Heavy users of aspartame-containing products consume as much as 250 mg of methanol daily or 32 times the EPA limit." From Dorway.com

Dbennet: "Now reference 3 is a study involving feeding adult rats with doses of aspartame.
But again this seems to be discredited."

This link does not discredit the study - one article written by one scientist entitled "Comments on the purported generation of formaldehyde and adduct formation from the sweetener aspartame." does not discredit a study.

As for the rest of your post, it's incredible that your 'less than 20 minutes' research that led you to the conclude you had found the best evidence saying Aspartame is safe, has also given you sufficient scientific knowledge on aspartame to go through 91 independent scientific studies and discredit each of them....

....incredible and totally unbelievable.

DBennett · 27/07/2010 10:31

As I said previously, I already has the ability to evaluate evidence.
And, as I also said, it took me 20mins to establish the state of the evidence and demonstrate that your previous assertions were spurious.

And the Dr. Briffa letter I linked to was the longer version of his edited summary, I didn't want to be accused of editing his work.
I think it speaks clearly enough for itself.

So, onto Methanol.
Methanol can be dangerous in the wrong quantities.
So we need to be precise on those quantities.

The only EPA oral RfD(reference dose) I can find is 0.5mg/kg/day.
So for a 70kg human: 35mg/day.

Which is quite different from your number of 7.8mg/day (taken from here, an unreferenced website of a pressure group.

However it is not very appropriate to use methanol.
Can we use aspartame numbers instead.

The FDA Acceptable Daily Intake is 50mg/kg/day.
The EFSA is 40mg/kg/day.

If a litre of aspartame sweetened soft drink contains around 600mg of aspartame, a human weighing 70kg can ingest around 5 litres before passing the acceptable daily intake.

Which, as most of these guidelines are, is set very conservatively.

Now if you want to make methanol your concern you need to deal with the facts that the body uses it (and it's metabolites) for a variety of biological processes and as such the primate body is very good at regulating it.

Not to mention that methanol is found in many food groups, and in some products at much higher levels than aspartame sweetened soft drinks
Tomato juice is the common example which contains 4x as much methanol as diet soft drinks.

But we are back to talking about theoretical risk.
The epidemiological data is pretty clear, there is no evidence of increased risk from plausible levels of aspartame consumption.

You don't seem to accept the existing evidence so I can ask a question, what piece of evidence are you waiting for?

jojo234 · 29/07/2010 15:41

Dbennett: "And the Dr. Briffa letter I linked to was the longer version of his edited summary, I didn't want to be accused of editing his work.
I think it speaks clearly enough for itself."

So you don't have a link to where you said "John Briffa's letter was so comprehensably pulled apart" ?

Ok, but not realy sure why you made that statement other than to try and discredit Dr Briffa's points ?!

Dbennett: "As I said previously, I already has the ability to evaluate evidence. And, as I also said, it took me 20mins to establish the state of the evidence and demonstrate that your previous assertions were spurious."

In your post on the 17th July, you discredited a number of Dr Briffa's references as being irrelevant as the studies dealt with formaldehyde rather than, as you said, aspartame. You did not seem to know that methanol is one of the major decomposition products of aspartame within the body, and that this converts into formaldehyde. Even though the start of Dr Briffa's letter, that you were discrediting, was all about that fact!

If that's an example of 'speed researching' you'd be better to slow down and actually read some of the stuff you are commenting on.

Dr Russell Blaylock who wrote the book 'Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills', writes in Aspartame and Pilots :

"a recent scientific study demonstrated that aspartame exposure significantly increases the level of formaldehyde in all tissue. Including brain and retina, and that this breakdown product of aspartame is very toxic to proteins and DNA, leading to permanent injury to these vital cellular components. Even more important, was the finding that this highly toxic substance accumulates in these with chronic exposure to aspartame. This could lead to significant injury to the brain, retina and other organs long after the exposure. Also, the effects appear to be dose related. That is, the more aspartame you consume, the greater the damage. It should be appreciated that formaldehyde is a powerful carcinogenic agent."

Re.your point re. fruit containing methanol :

In Dr. Woodrow C. Monte?s REPORT ASPARTAME: METHANOL AND THE PUBLIC HEALTH he discusses the fact that Methanol in fruit comes in combination with ethanol and it is thought that it is "This high ethanol to methanol ratio, even at these low ethanol concentrations, may have some protective effect. As stated previously, ethanol slows the rate of methanol's conversion to formaldehyde and formate allowing the body time to excrete methanol in the breath and urine"

"Another factor reducing the potential danger associated with methanol from natural juices is that they have an average caloric density of 500 Kcal/liter and high osmolarity which places very definite limits to their consumption level and rate."

"Simply because methanol is found "naturally" in foods, we can not dismiss the need for carefully documented safety testing in appropriate animal models before allowing a dramatic increase in its {aspartame's} consumption."

It's similar with the phenylalanine component of aspartame :

"Dr. Richard Wurtman, a neuroscientist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said that while bananas, milk and NutraSweet all contain phenylalanine, one of 21 amino acids that form the "building blocks" of protein, there is more to the story. Wurtman said because aspartame lacks other important amino acids normally found in foods, the brain absorbs unusually high levels of phenylalanine that could increase the likelihood of epileptic seizures. Dr. Louis Elsas, director of medical genetics at Emory University, groans at the industry arguments that eating or drinking NutraSweet (aspartame) is just like eating a hamburger, saying that "Phenylalanine is a known toxin to the brain. Aspartame is phenylalanine, and drinking aspartame is like drinking phenylalanine as an individual amino acid." . From Source Watch - Aspartame and Here

Dbennett: "If a litre of aspartame sweetened soft drink contains around 600mg of aspartame, a human weighing 70kg can ingest around 5 litres before passing the acceptable daily intake. "

Going by your figures, then a child weighing 16 kg would exceed their acceptable daily intake by consuming just over 1 litre of aspartame sweetened soft drink a day!

However, even the FDA toxicologist, Dr. Adrian Gross, who had asked that Searle be indicted for fraud, admitted to Congress that no ADI should have been allowed to be made because aspartame caused cancer and violated the Delaney Amendment.

"In 1985 he testified against aspartame approval to Congress:

Dr. Adrian Gross, told Congress at least one of Searle's studies "has established beyond ANY REASONABLE DOUBT that aspartame is capable of inducing brain tumors in experimental animals and that this predisposition of it is of extremely high significance. ... In view of these indications that the cancer causing potential of aspartame is a matter that had been established WAY BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT, one can ask: What is the reason for the apparent refusal by the FDA to invoke for this food additive the so-called Delaney Amendment to the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act?"

The Delaney Amendment makes it illegal to allow any residues of cancer causing chemicals in foods. In his concluding testimony Gross asked, "Given the cancer causing potential of aspartame how would the FDA justify its position that it views a certain amount of aspartame as constituting an allowable daily intake or 'safe' level of it? Is that position in effect not equivalent to setting a 'tolerance' for this food additive and thus a violation of that law? And if the FDA itself elects to violate the law, who is left to protect the health of the public?" Congressional Record SID835:131 (August 1, l985)"
From RESPONSE LETTER TO THE FOOD STANDARDS AGENCY - Dr. Betty Martini, D.Hum.

Dbennett: "Good science, espeically good epidemiology costs money.
And if I was deciding who was to pay for work on this, I'd want the companies selling it to pay for research. "

I'd want this done by independent organisations with public funding, and approval of substances not decided upon by individuals in the industry's pocket. People's health depends on this.

As Dr. Woodrow C. Monte?s says REPORT ASPARTAME: METHANOL AND THE PUBLIC HEALTH : "We know nothing of the mutagenic, teratogenic or carcinogenic effect of methyl alcohol on man or mammal. Yet, if predictions are correct it won't be long before an additional 2,000,000 pounds of it will be added to the food supply yearly.

Must this, then, constitute our test of its safety?"

"Dbennett: "You don't seem to accept the existing evidence so I can ask a question, what piece of evidence are you waiting for?"

You're right, I don't accept the evidence saying aspartame is safe.

The Ramazzini Foundation studies (you refer to them as discredited Rat studies) have proven the carcinogenicity of Aspartame.

Interestingly, in 2008, a study by the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences endorsed the Ramazzini methodology, saying that extending animal bioassays beyond 2 years and beginning exposure in utero provides more reliable and appropriate indicators of human risk.

I don't want to expose myself or my children, or you or your children, to a substance that is a proven carcinogenic.

DBennett · 29/07/2010 23:20

If I was looking to discredit Dr Briffa I would have no shortage of targets: his views on autism & vaccines or how about dowsing & kinesiology.

And yes, I did know that aspartame breaks down to methanol (among other compounds).

But methanol is toxic at comparitively low doses for a number of reasons , not all of which apply to aspartame.

For example, aspartame is converted to methanol in the intestine.
Methanol is most toxic when inhaled or absorbed through the stomach.
This doesn't happen in aspartame.

This, among other reasons, is why you shouldn't parse compounds down to their constitute parts.

As to your series of book quotes, I though we had accepted that peer reviewed work is one of the minimum standards for evidence.
I don't think we want to drift away from that.

And, yes, by those figures a 3yr old would not be advised to drink more than a litre of aspartame a day.
Do you not think that is a sensible piece of guidance?
Although there is little reason to think anything would bad would happen to the child if they did drink more than that (or at least not from the aspartame, I would think dental damage was an issue).

But I do wish you answered my question on what piece of evidence would change your mind on the issue.
Or maybe there isn't one.

I would change my mind if a few large scale, multi-centre, long term well conducted studies showing consistent increased risk from aspartame came out.
It would have to be of that level to overturn the weight of the evidence.

You seem to think that less than a handful of rat studies are enough to be sure of an issue.
Even if they weren't controversial in their methodology (although not in the way your link talks about they still wouldn't "have proven the carcinogenicity of Aspartame".

They don't even come close.

And the idea that such a small set of studies of an animal model could prove something is very suspect.
That's just not how toxicology (or science in general for that matter works).

But as you believe aspartame is carcinogenic in small quantities may I ask what quantities are hazardous?
And what the excess risk is?
And for what cancers?

jojo234 · 30/07/2010 14:54

You know what Dbennett, I'm done discussing the dangers of aspartame with you.

I'm still convinced that you are paid by the food industry to be active on popular forums to discredit any aspartame concern threads.

Either that or you are so institutionalised that you are unable to see the wood from the trees.

Here's a great video for you:

Food: The Ultimate Secret Exposed "In a special video, Alex Jones addresses one of the darkest modes of power the globalists have used to control the population? food."

I'll get your response started for you:
"The weight of evidence supports no excess risk....."

Oh, pleeeese!

When you are in the twilight of your years and your grandchildren are asking
'what were you doing grandma when they brought in the New World Order?',
I hope your answer won't be

'I'm sorry child...I was helping to bring it in'.

DBennett · 30/07/2010 23:29

"I'm still convinced that you are paid by the food industry to be active on popular forums to discredit any aspartame concern threads."

Ah, if only I had known funding was available...

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