Why do we not vaccinate against chicken pox?

[PolkaDotRachel]

My SIL has just mentioned that her DD is having some more jabs this week - and one of them is chicken pox.

Why do we not vaccinate against chicken pox in the UK?

Can it be done privately?

Any thoughts?

Please refer to links made earlier up the thread. We don't know, the debate is continuing.

Wrt the complications of the disease, you do also have adverse events to consider, so the rarity of each is quite important but rather difficult to weigh up. For example: you know three children who suffered complications, I know none; in the same way that some people who know of adverse vaccine events, and other will say they know of none at all.

Vulnerable communities tend to include pregnant women or women who could become pregnant and being exposed to the virus at the same time would not be a good thing.

You will always find some hysteria over some subjects on parenting forums -- cf fruitshoots and greggs sausage rolls here for instance. And in a population of over 250 million people, a few forums is really a drop in the ocean. I personally never encountered anything but sanity and common sense among RL people in the US wrt chicken pox.

Overall, the risks associated with the wild disease (as CatherinaJTV says) are far higher than the risks associated with the vaccine.

No one will ever convince me to give the VP vaccine to my DCs. We've all had it as children and so have all our own children and I have never heard of one single complicated case.

Rather a couple of tiny scars and lifelong immunity than shooting some rubbish into the bloodstream.

"Vulnerable communities tend to include pregnant women or women who could become pregnant"

You mean people that would already more than likely be immune if they were allowed to contract it as children?

"the risks associated with the wild disease (as CatherinaJTV says) are far higher than the risks associated with the vaccine"

The risks associated with the disease are minimal anyway.

"The risks associated with the disease are minimal anyway."

The risks of the vaccine are even less!

In my own immediate environment i know

One stroke in a 6 year old caused by chicken pox, causing paralysis completely down one side, but he has recovered but obviously he lost a lot of school and has been left with some learning difficulties. He also had to learn to talk again.

one death of a perfectly healthy parent caused by chicken pox

numerous adults catching chicken pox from their child and becoming very ill (so not guaranteed to catch as a child)

One immunosuppressed child was in very close proximity to my DS the day before his spots came out, so had to be rushed to GO for the 4th time to get the special vaccination that only works for two weeks (can't remember what it is called)

then if a baby gets chicken pox it is unlikely to be immune and also more likely to get shingles as a child
I have had shingles it is very unpleasant and was still getting neuralgia over 10 years later and was left with a lump in my groin for 4 years. That was a very mild case with just 12 spots.

There is no evidence to date that lack of wild chicken pox in the environment has led to higher incidents of shingles, and shingles can now be vaccinated against as well.

"Overall, the risks associated with the wild disease (as CatherinaJTV says) are far higher than the risks associated with the vaccine."

"The risks of the vaccine are even less!"

Unfortunately this just isn't known. Long term effects are rarely investigated and often denied.

I don't think stroke is a 'minimal' risk, Bubbley -- childhood stroke is one possible risk you take with wild chicken pox.

But see Bruffin's and Catharina's posts.

And you can't assume that people who have spent their lives in dire refugee camps in the Horn of Africa, many of them orphaned, will know if they are immune or will have any record of having had the disease or of being innoculated. Some may have other conditions that militate against vaccination.

The vaccine has been around for 20+ years now, Bluberties.

both my dc are vaccinated.
ds has eczema and I felt it is better for him not to have this extra strain on his skin. 60£ privately at the gp...

Pneumonia, "severe brain reactsion" (quote package insert) and low platelet count are not minimal either. I didn't say it hadn't been around. I said long term effects are rarely investigated and often denied. And, of course, there is underreporting, accepting by all conventional medical sources as a real issue.

reactsion = reactions

Btw Caterina's post I had to refer up to some of the links earlier on the thread re: immune suppression response.

ashtangini

vaccines are not injected directly into the bloodstream - that is anti-vaccine fear mongering. It is not like the wild virus is "harmless" just because it comes without any additives.

They do bypass some of the important immune system responses that the wild virus doesn't, however.

and which ones would that be specifically Blueberties?

Hey Caterina. I'm going to bed but if you read the thread you'll find the answers you need.

I should be going to bed too, have other reading to do before then, sorry. I thought you'd be able to quickly point me in the right direction. I am happy with the varicella vaccine anyways - one shot and DD did not get a single blister in the three outbreaks she has been exposed to since (including exposure to her little brother who had chicken pox twice - damn that "nacheral immunity", I guess).

I did point you in the right direction, it's not a very long thread and also I did suggest earlier that you look back at the research referred to. If you really are keen to find out it's a few seconds away and seems unnecessary to relink or copy and paste.

And yes, we're very happy that we've had chicken pox without any complications and with no scarring, and have developed natural immunity and don't have to fret about having the vaccination again because it might run out.

math, the risk of having a stroke due to cp is quite minimal. Around 1/3 of paediatric strokes have unknown causes - the leading causes (over 50%) are cardiac disorders and heart disease. Cp accounts for a small percentage so if you aren't worried day to day about your child having a stroke from some unknown cause then why worry about your child potentially having one from cp.

Actually, according to GOSH over 80% of children who have AIS have cerebral arterial abnormalities and the incidence of AIS in children is 3 in 100,000 each year. That's all cases. So yes, I would say the risk from cp is minimal.

Another factor for a country deciding to introduce the vaccine is if they think the cost of adminstering the vaccination program will offset economic factors due to parents/adults having time off work due to the sickness or looking after young children with sickness.

I wouldn't have had it for DS unless it had been freely available where we live. I wasn't going to but then saw a segment on a TV news program by parents who had lost a son to complications caused by CP (it can affect membranes of the heart somehow I think) appealing to other parents to have children vaccinated. It was emotional blackmail but on the other hand, also a bit like driving without a seatbelt - it is a known risk that it was in my power to reduce & I believe it is less riskier than potential vaccine side effects so I got it done.

Idle, how would have felt if the parents of a vaccine damaged child came on and told you not to vaccinate? Funny how they aren't allowed to do that isn't it? I wonder what the risk of that particular complication was.

Bumbley -- "Conclusion?In young children with AIS, there is a 3-fold increase in preceding varicella infection compared with published population rates, and varicella-associated AIS accounts for nearly one third of childhood AIS. Varicella-associated AIS has characteristic features, including a 2-fold increase in recurrent AIS and transient ischemic attacks. Varicella is an important risk factor for childhood AIS.."
From this study

WRT effects on the heart. "Children in the varicella cohort were more likely to have basal ganglia infarcts (P

Probably about as sure as Caterina is that there've been no complications from the vaccine but of course now you really are scare-mongering.

'Our retrospective cohort study of >3 million children found no association between varicella vaccine and ischemic stroke.'

I am therefore pretty sure that vaccine is safer than wild cp where stroke is concerned.