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Original poster

circumcision yes or no

387 replies

morocco · 16/03/2003 23:18

My 5 month old has a tight foreskin and doctors here recommend circumcision but Im really not keen. I spoke to docs in the UK and they said to wait and see but then I started worrying about whether it would be traumatic for him to be circumcised at say 4 or older and whether it might be better to just go ahead now. Has anyone been through this with a child of this age/older? All advice gratefully received

OP posts:
sml2 · 17/03/2003 18:07

I originally asked mumnet's opinion about circumcision on this thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=138&threadid=1005&stamp=020306191845
and got some interesting feedback.

pupuce · 17/03/2003 22:00

Get a second opinion!

willow2 · 17/03/2003 22:31

Bobbins - read your post wrongly and first thought was - "why only 3 years? Did he have it put back?"!

Re the snip - haven't had ds done but agree with the points Lil made re comparisons with female circumcision. There is no comparison.

Original poster
morocco · 17/03/2003 23:12

thanks for the info everyone. Its good to get a few different perspectives on things. I feel much happier about the wait and see approach now esp knowing that other kiddies get through it Ok if it has to be done later on - sounds like his mum might be the only one to be traumatised

Out here its often done at aged 2 or 3 but its becoming more common to be done at birth/soon after and I guess docs don t have much experience of tight foreskin problem. It sounds like the 'fiddle with it in the bath' advice I was given is a bit out of date too - lucky I didn't pay any attention then!

sml2 and jasper thanks for links

OP posts:
Holly02 · 17/03/2003 23:17

I really don't like the insinuation that circumcision equates to child abuse, Aloha. Neither did I let someone near my child with a knife. The method that was used on my son was the most painless and 'sedate' procedure I have ever seen, with no needles, knives, cutting or surgery of any kind.

It comes down to the fact that everybody has differing opinions about everything, from smacking to circumcision to breastfeeding to discipline. Is it fair to say that people who choose to do things differently to you are child abusers? People who have no regard for their children at all, who mistreat them and beat them and leave them to fend for themselves are child abusers in my opinion. There is a huge difference.

And I agree with Lil and Willow, the female circumcision comparison shouldn't even come into it.

threeangels · 18/03/2003 00:48

I think sometimes mumsnetters can be really insulting with their comments. And it all starts because someone asks for a little advice in the start of the thread. Why can't people express in a not so nasty way. Sorry

breeze · 18/03/2003 07:22

Threeangels, I do not think people mean to offend, I think they get passionate about something and type away.

robinw · 18/03/2003 07:31

message withdrawn

Ghosty · 18/03/2003 07:36

I would like to add a bit more here ... My father and my brothers are circumcised ... 65 years ago in the UK it was the norm, and when my brothers were born we lived in South Africa where it was (and I think, still is) the norm as it is a hot country.
I have never had much opinion of it either way UNTIL my DH and I attended a Jewish ceremonial circumcision of a 13 day old baby (the child of a very close friend). My DH (who is NOT C'd) said afterwards that there was no way on earth he would allow a son of his to be circumcised. He said that the baby was clearly in pain (he watched as the men were meant to and the women were not, so I was in the other room) as it screeched (I heard it) at the time of cutting. For the rest of the evening the baby kept shuddering every so often, presumably as he was doing a wee. In terms of everyone being at one with it because it is the 'norm' ... well, the mother cried most of the evening and one of the uncles (who was c'd himself as a baby) fainted while watching the procedure.
I am sorry threeangels that you feel that people are being insulting ... I have read through and I can see why you feel that as some people word things in that way ... they are just expressing their opinions about a fairly difficult topic.
I believe that people must do what they feel is right for their child and I also feel that if people have a strong religious reason for doing this then that is what they must do.
I do agree with others however that the foreskin is there for a reason and there is no real medical reason for all boys to be circumcised. I would not put my son through such a procedure that my DH witnessed.

mum2toby · 18/03/2003 07:59

Dress it up any way you want to! It obviously will cause pain to your child. I can't imagine why ANY parent would want to see this done to their child..... unless COMPLETELY necessary. And to do it to a 13 day old baby with NO ANEASTHETIC is child abuse.

Ghosty - that is a horrofying story, but sums it up. Ceremonial circumcision and doing it coz it's the 'done thing' is just wrong.

Croppy · 18/03/2003 08:04

I would imagine that circumcision poses fewer long term health risks to a child than say, smoking throughout pregnancy.

mum2toby · 18/03/2003 08:05

Low dig Croppy and totally unecessary.

mum2toby · 18/03/2003 08:07

I suppose chopping of the babies little fingers would pose as less of a health risk too, but that doesn't make it ok or painless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Croppy · 18/03/2003 08:10

I'm not a muslim or Jewish (and nor would I circumcise my child) but If I were I would find a lot of the comments below offensive.

mum2toby · 18/03/2003 08:20

Croppy - do you not have an opinion about circumcision??

I do, and I think it's totally wrong unless for medical reasons! That is my opinion and I'm expressing it.

Does the story Ghosty told not send shivers donw your spine???? How can that be the right thnig to do for your child??

breeze · 18/03/2003 08:22

Is that what we do now on mumsnet, argue on one thread then if we do not agree with that person drag something up on another thread to put the boot in.

I am quite dissapointed really. I do understand that people express their view quite strongly at times, I have seen it quite a lot, but then also seen the same people being friendly on another thread.

We are talking about people allowing their children to go though some kind of surgury that is not always medically needed. We are talking about people who feel so strongly because they have small children and want to protect them. Of course they are passionate.

Can you behave a bit for like adults that we are and stop the "sticks and stones" part.

mum2toby · 18/03/2003 08:24

Nicely put Breeze.... slightly more tactful than I've been on this thread!!

Croppy · 18/03/2003 08:29

Actually my smoking reference wasn't meant to be personal at all as perhaps I should have used the word drinking or something else. I was just trying to make the point that different cultures have different views and I personally don't think sweeping judgements are constuctive.

mum2toby · 18/03/2003 08:32

I couldn't live with myself if I heard my ds shriek in pain as part of his genitals was cut away for the sake of religion.

Ghosty · 18/03/2003 08:35

Croppy ... I am sorry if I have offended you. I did not post this story to be offensive ... I said at the bottom that if there is a religious reason why people have to have their sons circumcised then they must do so. I have a lot of respect for people's religious convictions and traditions. I just wanted to say that I do not believe it doesn't hurt a baby to do that to them and I would not have it done to my son as there is NO reason for us to have it done ...

Mum2Toby ... I do NOT see the story that I told as child abuse and I never said that. My husband was shocked and upset by what he saw and he said he would never want it done to a son of his ... but he understood that it was a religious procedure that was part of the little boy being accepted into his religious community ... it was very important to his family and their ancient traditions and we were very honoured to be invited to such an important ceremony ... again I wanted to say that it was not something that WE would do as we have no such religious background.

The mother of the baby is a very dear old friend of mine and is a wonderful mother ... I would hate her to think that I felt she was abusing her child ...

As threeangels said ... someone asked for advice and has got a million people's opinions of what is right and wrong ...

I wish I had not told that story now ... I'm sorry ...

Ghosty · 18/03/2003 08:38

Breeze ... you posted while I was writing mine ... thank you for being a calm voice of reason.

mum2toby · 18/03/2003 08:41

I still don't think that it's right to put your child through that for the sake of religion and acceptance!!!!!!

Croppy · 18/03/2003 08:41

Ghosty, there was nothing wrong with your message at all. It's the child abuse allegation that I objected to.

Tissy · 18/03/2003 09:12

I would hope that medical circumcision is always done with an anaesthetic of some sort. Ritual circumcision is not.There is no way that this procedure is NOT painful. Just because a tiny baby can't tell you what its feeling doesn't make it painless.

I have also (in the line of my work)seen a three year old boy at death's door after haemorrhaging form a ritual circumcision. When he started to bleed the parents took him not to a doctor or hospital, but back to the person who did the procedure. He just wrapped it in cotton wool and said that it would stop. It didn't.

Much as I respect people's religious beliefs (and I am a Christian myself, and DO respect other religions) I cannot accept that circumcision is right. I just don't see how the presence or absence of a piece of skin can shape how you live your life. Surely God/ Allah/ Whoever GAVE you that piece of skin, why cut it off?

Holly02 · 18/03/2003 09:19

Me too Croppy - sweeping allegations of 'child abuse' are just ridiculous and unfair. It sounds to me like people are just jumping on the bandwagon.

Mum2toby, I think you've made your opinion known, and I don't think it's fair for you to sit in judgment on parents who believe they have done the right thing, especially when they have not subjected their child to the type of scenario that Ghosty described. You may as well have the same type of argument with someone who believes in smacking - just because you may not agree with it, doesn't give you the right to condemn everyone else who does.