anyone who is unsure about MMR I urge you......

[CrushWithEyeliner]

to contact www.jabs.co.uk. I spent over an hour talking to the most informative, helpful, balanced Woman who listened to my DDs history and just gave me the most incredible insight into the world of immunisations.

DD has already had a reaction to a vaccine so obviously I have more of a worry, but she was still extremely impartial and what she said just screamed common sense. When all I get from my so-called healthcare professionals is "you must do it there is really no risk".

For example she asked me to think about the ways in which we "catch" these viruses, normally through the throat which then filters through to the stomach and rest of the body. The immune system hence processes these bacteria in a the natural way. Comparing this to a shot of the virus (with other chemicals) directly through the bloodstream and into the internal organs. This can be just one factor to cause a reaction in a child.

Now I am just using this as an example of one of many things we discussed, I am not trying to persuede anyone that this is Gospel, but I have come to the right decision for me and DD talking it through with an intelligent, informative person which is SO mush more that I got from my GP after DD had a bad reaction.

Anyway I just urge you to call them if you are unsure or worried, they are fantastic.

I looked at how that Jabs organisation are funded - it says donations from 'well-wishers'. I think I'd want to know more about who those well-wishers are if I wanted to be reassured that there is no agenda at all.

I will jimjams he was actually the guy I was recommended to talk to, he sounds excellent.

Actually there's lots that the government could do.

The risk factors are beginning to be understood - these could be taken into account. Natasha Campbell McBride- who is a doctor plus parent of an autistic child has suggested that before vaccination every child should be put through a test to decide whether they should be given the standard protocol, some jabs not others, or no jabs. At a simple level this could be done by means of a questionnaire. At a more complex level there are tests out there that could be run. And this is an area of research with is having money literally poured into it. I sat through an afternoon of talks on the immune system and autism- and the ways in which the immune system of many of those with autism differs from those without. I was very interested in the talks I heard on this sort of stuff Think it potentially holds real promise for the future- and is the sort of thing the government could take account of.

Single jabs could be given - yes of course they can still cause problems but they appear to be safer. Anyway MMR/autism aside the single mumps jab works far better than the mumps component of the combined jab. The baby jabs should be available singly. I would like ds3 to have tetanus protection, but as he's already had a seizure there's no way he's getting pertussis. There is no single tetanus available until he's 10 (unless I pay privately and even then I think that means given a plus 10 dose - need to find out more).

The main thing they could do though is actually investigate when something may have gone wrong. I've heard some utter horror stories of treatment being denied, parents told they were imagining their child's regression (which was loss of words aged 4 accompanied by extreme bowel symptoms) or children being removed from GP's lists because the GP 'didn't want to get involved'. All of that is inexcusable behaviour and not in anyone interests.

On the subject of regressions. It is accepted by the medical profession that ds1 regressed. It's written in his diagnosis letter. There's some discussion about whether it was the illness he had, or it's treatment that triggered the regression, but there is no question that he regressed. I have never been challenged on that. It has been met with nodding heads. And video of him talking backs that up. BUt his regression was slower and less physically severe than any the children I know who regresssed following MMR. He simply stopped talking and restricted his diet to cheerios and bread. The children I know whose parents link MMR had massive seizures, were in ICU, or stopped talking as 4 year olds, or passed thick blood in their stools. I can't understand how a doctor can agree that ds1 had a regression but say that the parents of the children mentioned above are deluded. That just doesn't make any sense. Investigate the children. Look at the children who have been affected. Make sure they receive treatment for their bowel condition (most don't- ulcerated guts and they get no treatment). Allow their doctors to have open minds when treating them.

At the GMC trial if you read the bits relating to the GPs evidence you'll see that most of them just wanted to be able to help their patients - but were left in difficult positions.

this is really promising as well - presumably a better understanding of the immune dysfunction could lead to some sort of screening for susceptible children.

paddlechick- we had ds1's immunity to M, M and R checked by blood test as we had given him MMR against my gut feeling really (he was fine, but looking back I feel we took a gamble) and didn't want to give him the 'booster', but I did wa t to know if he was protected against measles. Interestingly, the mumps component appears not to have worked properly.

With ds2 I will be sticking to my guns and he will be having singles, well-spaced.

Like you I have occasional psoriasis, I alo have bouts of IBS now and again, and for me that is enough to be cautious.

Should add ds2 had IV antibiotics at 3 weeks for neonatal infection, and that makes me more cautious still (ds1 has never had ABs).

berolina, where/how did you get those tests carried out?

just perusing Jabs again and note allergies can also play a part. H has quite bad asthma.

I'm in Germany - dses' paediatrician did it.

ah, okay.

i just looked at Richard Halvorsens website for his babyjabs clinic in London.

I can get a measles immunity test there for £50 plus £75 for consultation.

The single measles jab is £95.

TBH, I think this is what I will do. Have dd's immunity proven one way or another then proceed with a single measles jab depending on the outcome of the consultation.

When dd is older I will consider Rubella but I don't see the point in her having it now when she will likely need a booster as she reaches puberty anyway.

I'm not very well informed wrt mumps....

Paddle, I think you can check immunity at the clinic in Sunbury. But, I'm curious, what is inherited immunity? Surely we aren't immune to things just because our parents have had them.

Athene, I'm seriously considering going to Halvorsen's clinic in central London.

I might've made it up (I often do lol) but I am sure I am heard/read somewhere that immunity can be inherited if not 100% but certainly in ways of a reduced reaction to the virus.

How's you anyways?

Inherited immunity is certainly possible for some diseases. And family history of communicable disease can be an issue down the generations - if your great-grandparents or grandparents had TB, that affects you. But I can't recall the details, unfortunately, or whether that's a good thing or not.

I would like ds aged 2 to have the single measles vaccine but not sure where to go. Can't find anything in my area (SW)

Unfortunately the Government is saving money by not giving these jabs singularly.

The take up would be higher if they did this, as most parents are worried about the 'overload' of more than one jab at a time.

If they wre single injections, well spaced there would not be half of the worried parents that this multi-jabs have caused.

Susceptibility is certainly a factor. So there may be a genetic susceptibitliy to certain illnesses. You won't inherit immunity to a disease although you might inherit an ability to deal well with that disease. Measles is a good example. If you introduce measles to a population that has never been exposed (eg a remote Amazonian tribe) then it will be a killer- its has a very high mortality rate in a new population. But in say Europe where it has been around for many years the population has better resistance. Doesn't mean it can't be nasty in individual cases, but it's not going to be wiping out entire families.

I'd recommend Halvorsen because he'll consider you as an individual. He knows his stuff. He's not out to make money either- I know people who have attended and then been advised to delay or not give certain jabs. Many of the other clinics where you can get single jabs appear to be profit driven and nothing is individualised.

I remeber my Mum insisting I be tested to see if I was already immune before the rubella jabs at school.
The GP was sniffy but did it none the less ( this is over 20 years ago).
I was immune and so never had the jab.

That's interesting. But, it obviously doen't work for chicken pox.

To be honest the Sunbury clinic has kind of annoyed me. I went to them specifically because they are very close for me, and because they offered appontment in the evening. Now their latest appointment is 5:something. And nothing on Saturday. They weere very unaccommodating and I just though hmm I don't pya you so you can tell me what's convenient to you. So DS has not been back for the mumps or the rubella jabs. Must arrange then sooner and not later.

sunbury were going to be my first choice too but, funnily enough, i was getting a feeling of being somewhat inflexible with appointment times too.

i guess for ds mumps and rubella are pretty important. i am really just going to go with measles if at all.

I like the idea of a consultation with Halvorsen so I can get an informed opinion and advice on how to proceed.

My GP keeps advising me to get DD's preschool boosters. I mention singles, and she advises I go get the measels single because measels is alive and well in the Richmond borough.

I haven't really decided whether a second jab is worth the price. Pity I can have a single jab on the NHS. Then I'd get it.

I do want DS to have mumps and rubella. Just need to organise the clinic (and associated payment).

got a consult with Halvorsen 1st August. depending on how that goes dd might get the measles jab the same day.

we'll see.

either way, am immensley relieved to have actually taken some action one way or ther other.

have felt like a rabbit in the headlights for the last 9m!

I have a book called 'how to raise a vaccine free child'. What we have lost is the art of nursing and common sense. Fevers are not supposed to be suppressed with calpol they or with sponging, fevers are the bodys way of killing and dealing with the virus. Also the child should be kept warm and not allowed to get a chill, so having it kept in bed while the fevers are acute, and also for a good period after. Also giving the correct foods no dairy or sugars. Also keeping the child in for at least 3 weeks and keeping a close observation on them. But in this day in age of 'dose em up and send em to school' it is not popular. My son got a-typical measles from the Jab and I had to nurse him for ten weeks as he was so ill, and because his immune system is to cock because of jabs he got a immune response disorder disease and I had to nurse him for 6 months for that one. My new DS will not go on the alter of vaccines.

Incidentally I agree with treatment for fevers beeper, the advice to strip the child and apply water, calpol, nurofen can be very misleading. I have always kept DD with light clothing in bed in a warm but not heated room.
When she was too cross and wretched to take any calpol I offered her I just thought to myself OK let's see if you can ride this through. She did and it broke that night. Another tip is when they get really sweaty the fever is broken and you have to keep them SUPER warm so they sweat it out, a chill at this stage can be dangerous.

I think "we" have become really frightened of illness in general. We see it as something bad or a weakness somehow.

I have made a decision I am happy with for DD but I still truly believe that I am stronger physically for all my childhood nasties.

I have started reading Halvorsen's book and it's eye opening that's for sure.

I am glad I have done the research that I have but I wish I had known more before dd had the DTP-Hib.