anyone who is unsure about MMR I urge you......

[CrushWithEyeliner]

to contact www.jabs.co.uk. I spent over an hour talking to the most informative, helpful, balanced Woman who listened to my DDs history and just gave me the most incredible insight into the world of immunisations.

DD has already had a reaction to a vaccine so obviously I have more of a worry, but she was still extremely impartial and what she said just screamed common sense. When all I get from my so-called healthcare professionals is "you must do it there is really no risk".

For example she asked me to think about the ways in which we "catch" these viruses, normally through the throat which then filters through to the stomach and rest of the body. The immune system hence processes these bacteria in a the natural way. Comparing this to a shot of the virus (with other chemicals) directly through the bloodstream and into the internal organs. This can be just one factor to cause a reaction in a child.

Now I am just using this as an example of one of many things we discussed, I am not trying to persuede anyone that this is Gospel, but I have come to the right decision for me and DD talking it through with an intelligent, informative person which is SO mush more that I got from my GP after DD had a bad reaction.

Anyway I just urge you to call them if you are unsure or worried, they are fantastic.

Other debates aside, the issue of licensing is a bit of a red herring. It costs lots of money, so often licenses are not obtained for children and pregnant ladies, etc.

I worked in a prem baby unit, and many babies lives were saved using unlicensed drugs.

BTW, I am, in principle pro MMR, although of course there is always a shadow of worry.

Hi giddy, I did wonder who you were!

Sawyer

Total tosh I'm afraid

My Ds was over 18 months old when he had his MMR

He was toilet trainning, talking and playing sociably with his brother.
He developed a huge hot lump at the sight ogf the jab and was very poorly for about two weeks.
He never spoke again. He stopped all babbling. He started poohing on the floor and refused most foods he had previously eaten. Dropped all eye contact. Began having screaming tantrums and became very violent.
His GP and his Paediatrician both confirmed that this was a well developing child who violently regressed post his MMR.
They won't or can't confirm that those two events are related.
However my current GP has confirmed that he is entirely in agreement that DD should not have it.

There was no 'hence' about it. My son violently regressed between 18 months and 20 months. His Doctors have confirmed it and I have the videos to confirm.

I don't know which reports Sawyer? Probably never will but she'd seen them. I had no reason to disbelieve her.

Like you say it's up to parents at the end of the day. I'm not anti jabs but am wary of the MMR.

The signs of Autism are usually only noticed or confirmed as they start to learn walking and talking skills around 12mths - 16mths,these skills then "regress" with Autism.

Hence the opinion "They were ok,until they had their Jab".

this is so insulting to the many parents who have seen a regression

pagwatch am so sorry to hear this

going for3 genuine question, When did your girls have measles? So sorry they were so ill, did they catch it before the age for MMR jab. I am just curious why you didn't have them vaccinated if you are pro MMR

Crush
TBH it is actually more tiring than anything else.
I guess we have a state of mutual contempt in a way - some health professionals seem determined to ignore honestly given first hand evidence because they trust their profession wholeheartedly. I think they see us as hysterical or misguided ( as in those mums accused of munchausens in cinnection with MMR regression) and I tend to view health professiuonals as emotionally attached to their mantras. And 'vaccinations is safe' is something of a mantra.
Personally I think vaccination is an extraordinary and wonderful thing.
I just think that some kids don't react well.
Wouldn't it be great if this could be talked about rationally and then health professionals and parents could work together to find out which kids struggle and maybe the vaccination programme could be made safe for all.

juniper
thanks. he's great and doing well .

Just realised my previous post should finish with
'and then we could hold hands and sing and listen to the birds and watch the setting sun'
sorry

I am not debating that these children have regressed.I am not trying to be insulting.
There is still no clear evidence to connect the two,is my point.

The regression seen by parents any age after they have learned these skills is automatically assumed by people that it is connected.

I am really sorry that this has affected you and your DS.

I just don't think it is fair to the other parents that aren't affected for people to be so sure that it was the jab when there is nothing to prove it either way.

IMO Autism is there from birth but the signs arent easy to detect,and tests are not done unless there is a strong link or reason to believe "something" is not right.

I am really sorry if I have offended " the parents that have seen a regression".

That was not my intention.

We all make decisions for our own children. No need to be rude about those that choose to do something different to you.

But you have posted that the facts are that children do not regress therefore the jab is safe.
the regression point is therefore relevent and it is wrong !
My son did not have autism from birth and your views are not supported but current thinking at all.
If the senior paediatrician at a major london hospital formally diagnoses that my child was developing perfectly normally and then regressed I am inclined to believe her.

I am not telling anyone else what to do re vaccinating their child but you seem to be suggesting that I should be quiet about what happened to my son because it is inconvenient.

"the facts are that children do not regress therefore the jab is safe"

I cannot see that I have indicated or said such a thing,after rereading my post.

I'm sorry you choose to take it that way.

I wish I could say the Jab was safe,but like the experts i am unable to make such a rash statement.

How can you be sure that your DS wasn't born with Autism?
because he made Eye Contact? because he would babble? because he developed "normally"?

The biggest most well known factor,symptom,call it what you will with Autism, is the regression.Skills that are learned and then "unlearned".

How am I not acknowledging that?

This is obviously a very sensitive subject,and not really one to go into depth with here.

As I said,i can do no more than apologise if I have "insulted" you.

My one aim was to give my opinion,(without proof) as you are giving yours,(without proof)There is no reports to link Autism with the MMR jab at this time.

God! my head is going to explode!!! I cancelled Dd's MMR yesterday...the second appointment. I was glad to have the ' excuse' last time that she was unwell(genuinely), but I've just got this feeling of doom for some reason. My nephew has Asbergers and my brother blames the MMR too. I personally don't know what to do for the best. I was feeling the same way with Ds, who is now nearly 10 and is awaiting assessments for Autism...
I was told when I asked about the singles, that they are licensed/produced in Croatia which put me off big time.

Incidentally, I didn't have the rubella at school and managed to avoid it through until I was pg. They checked my immunity to it by blood test and it proved that I was naturally immune. I wonder if it's possible that my immunity has been passed on to my Dd....

IMO although I am reluctant to say anything now.....

In your situation,I think you are wise to wait.

Speak to anyone you trust about it.
Like someone else said,Licencing has a great deal to do with cost,not always safety.

I would definitely consider the single vaccines.Then you will know you have done all you can to "avoid" the risks.

Who Sawyer?

They are not all produced in Croatia solo that is rubbish. You have the right to ask the country of origin and batch number and all sorts of particulars, also is best to ask jabs about recommended Doctors who have been sourcing the drugs safely for years. Just because MMR is produced in the UK dosen't mean it is super safe.

seems like the 'eastern european' vaxs is a scare tactic. if you go onto the baby jabs site and onto the vaccine lists the same companies that make the mmr and other vaccines also make the singles. The reason that the NHS wants to give multiple doses is because single appointments take up to much time and resourses and parents often fail to keep them. Follow the money and see where it leads you.

Yes, I wondered about the scare tactic thing myself, but it was the practise nurse that said it and that was after she'd given me the private clinic details...obviously we'd have to pay for them, so that's why I thought it couldn't be a scare tactic...I'm so confused...it was the Croatia thing that did put me off tbh and I know that UK produced things aren't necessarily safer than EU produced things, I would just feel more uneasy about EU produced vaccines than UK produced ones iyswim.

sawyer
please don't be reluctant to post.
i disagree with you but I am nottrying to be aggressive or trying to discourage you from posting.

He didn't have autism. He was 'normal' . And the reason I am confident that the issue was his vaccination was the other symptoms which emerged imediately at the same ytime as his behavioural symptoms.
he developed bowel issues and he started to restrict his food choices massively. As I found out later that fits with Wakefields theory re gut damage.
Theses two symptoms may also have been lying mysteriously dormant of course - like the no eye contact, violent aggression , loss of speech thing. And could just be coincidence . Except that when I took out gluten and dairy his autistic symptoms reduced and he started talking again.
Am I supposed to accept that as some mysterious co-incidence too?

I do get a bit at the way the Health guys wanyt it all ways.
Firstly my GP said DS could not possibly have autism because he was perfectly 'normal' until he was 18- 20 months.
Then he said 'oh actually there is a rare form of autism where children do loose skills - but rarely this late'.
Now you are saying that the primary symptom of autism is lost skills !
Well which is it?.
My experience is that most parents are remarkably candid about their children because mostly they want the truth. Most parents of my sons peers are very sure about their own children - the vast majority talking about ASD relatives and their children haveing soft signs from birth and first years.

Only very few parents suggest their children regressed. And many of them, like me, noticed bowel and food issues at the same time.

Regression - especially violent regression remains fairly rare.
You cannot create a whole new syndrome of all children being ASD from birth and it mysteriously lying dormant until regression and then make this the new major first symptom. It is simply making stuff up to suit your theory !
the truth is that there are many different roads to autism. I just believe that for my son there was a trigger.

solo - if I was you with your family history I would hold off with the jabs too tbh. A friend had someone in her family with autism and she had single jabs for her children.

ds3 regressed post mmr and needs a booster

I still havent made a decision but as his mmr was given very late (was ill at time then we moved) ok for a month or two yet

Peachy
any news?
any celebrations going on?
Is it a specail day by any chance

congrats and congrats

lol pagwatch- got a 2:1. well chuffed!