Please help me with my seemingly incontinent 8 year old daughter - getting worried.

[StartingToGetVeryWorried]

My daughter is 8 (9 in october) and to put it bluntly she stinks! She always smells of wee and poo and it is very very very rare that she keeps her knickers clean all day.

Sometimes it is so mortifyingly embarassing as it is really quite strong and I cant imagine what others must think.

She potty trained normaly at about 2.5 yrs and although not as good as my son was was fine, usual amount of accidents.

She then had an accident when she was about 4 which involved hurting her bum and from then on started a cycle of holding poos in until she became severely constipated etc etc

It seemed to improve for a good while but recently over the last few months it is back with a vengeance.

Now she is approaching 9 I am really worrying for her as eventually the kids in her class will pick up on her as the stinky kid and start bullying her Im sure.

I keep finding knickers covered in poo and wee hidden stuffed at the back of drawers.

The part of it I dont understand is taht she doesnt seem to care - every night I lay her clothes out for the next day including clean underwear yet often she doesnt use the clean knickers and keeps on the dirty ones???

Can anyone give me any advice on how to deal with it?

It is not full accidents she is having, her knickers are normally stained with varying degrees of skidmarks from light to very bad but not actual full poos iyswim.

Im not sure where the wee comes into it but that is certainly an issue too.

HELP

Hi everyone, I wish I'd read the last few messages before we went.

The doctor was very kind with DD and DD was fine with it and talked a bit about it.

But the doctor was talking to her about a star chart, has prescribed small dose of both lactulose and senna and wants to see us again in 2 weeks

Will then refer to clinic if no improvement.

I think you have to go back and see a different doctor. You need to get referred to the constipation clinic this week. Only there can you access the help she needs. Go and bang yout fist on the table and insist. (Speaking as someone whose dc has been under the clinic for a few years. They are FAB)

where are you startingtogetworried?

Sorry I too think the doc is being too cautious. Bloody star charts! She needs to see a proper constipation clinic (in my view), she also needs an xray to see just how impacted she it (or a skilled doc to feel her belly). Banging the table time....

and another thing - star charts are simply re-enforcing the message it is her behaviour at fault. And it is most definitely not the cause. She cannot FEEL when she needs to go. Am getting a bit annoyed. What will she get stars for being clean?

totally agree, no star charts - that implies she has control, its not fair on her!

Don't go with the star chart thing - IMO she's too old!

She doesn't need a star chart to get motivated to go to the toilet if she doesn't ever feel like going. She does need to get used to going to the loo even if she doesn't want to go though.

I really recommend you encourage her to sit on the toilet with her feet up on a box (or one of those step things for kids to reach the sink); massage her tummy and do the "rock & pop".

This needs to be at regular times every day - morning before school but after breakfast and evening after tea.

Print her off the leaflet www.eric.org.uk/portals/0/downloads/Get%20going%20be%20regular%20and%20learn%20to%20manage%20your%20 bowels%20june%202006.pdf

Yes, rewards for co-operating with the 'sitting on the toilet, at the same time each day, even if you don't want to regime' (but not star charts, maybe Claires Accessories or similar girly tat shop). But NOT rewards for having clean knickers.

def no star charts - I'm amazed they suggested that but they're not specialists - you really need to see someone like the 'poo lady'

and all the rocking and popping in the world won't sort the impaction out without pretty heavy duty medication

be firm!

or rather be loose !

Don't panic about all this advice.

Your GP is just starting fronm the premise that that the problem could be easily sorted esp if laxatives have never been tried - and don't forget - maybe the constipation clinic have a referral protocol which means that she has to begin management of these problems in the community before a referral. (When I had my verruca done they had a 2 year rule before they'd accept a referral!)

So just be very encouraging with your dd - praise a poo in the toilet - and as DLeeds says - not for clean knickers.

And it doesn't seem likely but the lactulose & senna may start the process. I would ask for a referral to the constipation clinic to be started now so that if there is a big delay the lactulose and senna could be working while you wait!

Hi everyone

I agree about the star chart comments I was a bit alarmed.

DD has gone for it though and seems excited by it but Im going to speak to her about it as she will quickly get demotivated and down again if she thinks she is failing.

She has written up her own chart and gets a stamp for taking her medicine, a stamp for going to the toilet to try etc. The clean knickers thing isnt mentioned and Ive made it clear that at the moment that really doesnt matter.

God love her she wrote on the bottom of the chart "dedicated to Dr XXXXXXXXX" - she is obviously just so pleased about getting help.

She has included a section in her chart to document her feelings and today she has written "feeling happy"

I think the doctor is thinking try this first and just maybe it might sort it, she hasnt had any laxatives or lactulose for about 3 years so maybe it will help. Im not going to give it the 2 weeks though. In a week at the most if no progress I will ring and verbally stamp fist. Do you think that is ok?

DD has asked me to talk to her teacher in the morning, Im hesitant to send her in but DH said, if its a longterm problem we cant just keep her off until solved hmmmm Im not sure.

To whoever asked, Im in the northeast

Oh, you and your dd sound like you're facing this whole thing very maturely now! I felt v emotional reading this thread.
I am no expert, but maybe it might be good to keep her off school until the meds have worked? Partly to avoid accidents/teasing, partlky for you to spend quality time, and partly to cement in her mind (and her classmates and teachers?) that this is a medical illness that you are off school for, like flu or any other illness.

Oh so glad you have come back, I thought you might have been worried about all the doctor comments.

My thoughts - (and feel free to ignore, as everyone is different). is keep her off for a couple of days - just to see if the meds have any effect (and she will be able to listen to her body more easily in the quietness of home). And it also makes it clear it is an illness (but that is secondary to her really concentrating to the sits and going to the loo as soon as she feels any urge).

I think your approach to the star chart is great - focus on the co-operation with the meds and regime, not the outcomes. Lovely.

Re education I think this takes priority. This has been on her mind so much and is so emotionally draining that it is a distraction anyway. Once more in control she will come in leaps and bounds once a large portion of her thining is not taken up with trying to control her body and her feelngs.

I think you are doing really well - and yes a week is plenty time to establish if the meds are working or not.

can't spell - once a large part of her thinking isn't taken up with worrying about her body.

I've just had a further thought....

seeing as she has turned into super co-operative girl overnight (which is absolutely brilliant, imagine what it would be like if she was still in defensive mode). I wonder if would be helpful for her to create a sort of daily diary, with time of day along one axis and food / toilet wee / toilet poo / wee accident / poo accident/ along the other.

If she fills it in for a few weeks that will help the clinic establish what is going on and might give you and her some idea of any patterns and perhaps whent the best times to go the loo might be. For example if always wet 2 hour after lunch for example she could work around that as school.

I don't think kids normally do this - but seeing as yours is super bright and actively wanting to do things it might be very useful in her future treatment plan. A couple of weeks might be enough to see any patterns are emerging.

But if it is too negative for her, too much or not age appropriate- then obviously don't suggest it.

DLeeds, great idea and one that DD got on her own last night.

She has done a whole new chart.

Medicine on one side and has morning and evening on there.

Then toilet and she has made a little chart to document if she went to toilet, if anything happened, any accidents etc

Todays entry reads - morning, after breakfast went to toilet, could feel the poo, tried to have one but didnt want to strain so no poo yet!

Bless her, she is amazing me how she is handling this.

She has gone into school but I spoke to the teacher first and have filled her in on the situation, her teacher says as DD is so sensible she doesnt even need to ask to go to the toilet she can just get up and go, they have arranged some supplies for her to change if she needs to. She is going to take a water bottle in with her that she can have with her and keep her fluids right up.

Ill see how she got on today at school and decide whether a few days at home might help.

Oh and I have just been to get her a pack of yugioh cards she has been wanting for ages to suprise her with later.

You really have got an amazing daughter - you should be very proud.

Can I ask, are you feeling a bit better about it all now. You were so distressed in your OP, are you OK?

I have some professional knowledge of this issue in my RL - call the ERIC helpline www.eric.org.uk which is absolutely fantastic and staffed by really knowledgable people, and which can recommend books and materials - 'Sneaky Poo' is a good one

This is a long haul problem, and it won't be resolved overnight, but you and dd will see progress, and it becomes socially more manageable quite quickly.

It is never, ever an issue of laziness, as you have seen!

Your DD sounds fab! Very mature.

Really hope it gets sorted as quickly as is possible for her. A bit at star chart suggestion by doc but like what it has become. It should really help her feel in control of it all.

Good luck!

DD was sent home from school at 1pm. Had a long chat with the teacher and we decided to just play it by ear each day with regard to her going to school for these first few days of treatment.

She had been very uncomfortable and upset in the morning - think she might be worried about the laxatives making her go at school and being out of control.

She got a stamp in her book from her teacher and had been talking about it to her - the teacher told DD that she has taught lots of children with this problem before and she seemed relieved about that.

DLeeds, yes, I do feel a hell of a lot better than I did - MILLIONS better thanks to everyone on her and also because I owe it to DD, I feel bad that I messed up before so am determined to get it right now, her positive attitude keeps me positive because if she can deal with it so admirably then I do too, don't I!

Tiktok, thanks for that link, I will check it out.

Just a quick thought - how about making an appointment now for next week, then cancelling it if things improve? That would save you not being able to get an appointment "because it's not an emergany". (Though a child yelling because they can't poo is an emergancy in my book.

Glad you are feeling better - you must have felt so stressed and upset about the whole situation. TBH I cannot believe how far your dd has come in less than two days. Talking about it to her teacher even!! And I think being physically uncomfortable with the laxative might be a good sign - things are getting moving.

It all sounds positive. How great of the teacher to tell her she had taught lots of children with it before - she will feel less alone.

Being home for a few days will prob help if you can manage it.

she needs lots of TLC.

Oh - and you didn't mess up - you just didn't know!

I cant understand it either, thats what makes me feel so guilty, all she needed was some love, reassurance and trust that i was going to help her BUT i know i cant think about that and just concentrate on now