My gorgeous dd has really really bad OCD.

[gracepaley]

We are on the waiting list for therapy and reading up about it like loons, but we are feeling really bleak about it. It's such a fucking pointless, ridiculous evolutionary blip, and it's turning her into a ghost of herself. Anyone got any cheery stories about recovery to bolster me? Normally more resolute, but just tonight feeling crap about it.

Hello everyone thank you v much for all your messages of support.I really appreciate them. This is an essay.

Imaginaryfriend, THIS BOOK www.amazon.co.uk/Talking-Back-Ocd-Program-Parents/dp/1593853556/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=12095 43598&sr=8-1
is the one my local CMHT uses for mild-moderate OCD. I think it's pretty good, pretty comprehensive. But having seen how bastard and nefarious the OCD is and how quickly it proliferates, I would like to very gently suggest that you don't try and deal on your own. The help IS there......apparently.

Which leads me to our session yesterday. Present in room: one very distressed 9 year old, her knackered 37 year old mother, a cliched male family therapist complete with ridiculous patterened jumper, and a highly strung but compassionate psychiatrist.

The session was chaotic, and tbh I could have been making the whole thing up, their questions lacked rigour and focus, and because of their different trainings they kept having different viewpoints on the OCD. DD was tic-ing and OCD-ing wildly through the whole thing and kept trying to leave.
The twatty therapist kept saying highly irritating and inappropriate things in a sing song voice, like trying to foist the train metaphor (some of you will know what I mean) onto dd whilst she was in the middle of an attack. I really wanted to headbutt him.

There is no CBT available for a month, and in the meantime they are very strongly pushing for her to go onto anti-ds.

And fucking Fiona got hold of music last night. Music was the last sacrosanct thing that she hasn't got hold of, but last night dd was playing her recorder and Fiona started fucking it all up in a really gleeful and vile way.

BUT.....have managed to wangle phone appt with private CBT therapist, who is very busy, but might be able to telephonically coach us through the next month just so we survive.

Hope all you oCD-ers past and present are very well, and the rest of you of course. Mrs JD hope Master JD is going from strength to strength.
xx

sorry the appointment was so stressful. have to confess my heart sank a little as soon as I saw the words "family therapist". When I was PG and had a bad OCD spate, my useless GP, referred me to an equally useless counsellor - being encouraged to hug my inner child and reflect on childhood woes was absolutely the last thing I needed as I was already depressed due to the OCD. Am glad that she is being referred for some proper CBT. She does seem terribly young for meds - afaik only prozac is meant to be effective for under 18s.

i know nothing about anti depressant drugs but surely if the little girl[and her family] are so stressed and exhausted and help is still awhile away and the doctors are recommending them - would it be so bad to try them?
alternatively my daughter uses rescue remedy in times of stress and homeopathic tablets - these do help her[perhaps just as sopmething else to focus on IYSWIM]

Sorry the session was so shit , i can imagine your disapointment and frustration

Thanks TC and VV...... Yeh, I should have twatted him maybe TC.

Am still musing about anti-d's. Afraid I don't believe in rescue remedy and all that for these levels of anxiety. Also with OCD it can be subsumed into a ritual as well. I do believe in nutrition and am looking into that.

As dd cannot read, write, draw, do crafts, practise music, do sport, go for a walk, play imaginary games, play card games, play board games, cook, wtf am I supposed to do with her when she is not at school? She can't watch tv and play on the computer all day, it's horrible. I do read to her and chat to her and jump on the trampoline when it is sunny but she is SO down at the moment, and I start each day full of enthusiasm and bright ideas but gradually they are eroded through the day and I find myself despairing too. Any bright ideas gratefully received.

oh grace, am so sorry - really wish things were better for you and dd...am not sure about the ads either - and don't have any useful advice to offer,except kind thoughts and support on here

Oh God grace that sounds awful. Can I just say something about ADs? Not very informed I suppose because I have taken them for depression and not for OCD. But I am aware of them working well for OCD in some cases and, more usefully, I can say that Seroxat in particular significantly reduced the obsessional quality of my thought, and consequently reduced my social phobia. The reduction in obsessionality is what seems possibly relevant.

And I know that you will be anxious about ADs because of all the publicity about side-effects and the dilemmas ivolved in prescribing to children. The side effects are usually almost always minor. And the wrongfullness of prescibing to children must usually relate to kids who are depressed essentially because of non-medical reasons (stress, family tension, poverty, etc). Your DD has a clear neurological condition, and is therefore more clearly suited to ADs. At least as a stop-gap, until the therapy, perhaps it is worth trying them. And if they help just a little bit it will help to put your daughter in a stronger position to begin the work of therapy.

Above all, I wanted to say that the fairly sensationalist over-reporting of difficulties with ADs shouldn't make you feel too anxious about your daughter using them.

I'm sorry to even speak on this when I have so little knowledge of OCD. Just ignore if not helpful.

what threadworm says does make a lot of sense

yeh thready I am moving towards that opinion myself. Not unhelpful at all. Just a big thing to get one's over-protective maternal head round, innit. x

Thready have just remembered your Immanuel Kant thread, still makes me pmsl.

Hi gracepaley, first of all, having just finished reading the thread, I'm really that AD have been suggested for your DD - have I got it wrong or is she just 9?

I work as a CBT therapist with Children & Adolescents and I must say we don't prescribe AD. Tend to carry out detailed assessment which can take up to three hour long appointments, we then begin to formulate and plan treatment. Following the assessment & formulation we offer around 12 sessions of CBT with a lot of homework etc in between sessions for family and YP to do before next session iykwim.
If you CAT me I can give you some more info recommend books resources etc.....

Oh yes that thread was FUN!

Whatever you decide about the ADs, I wish you and your daughter the best of luck. Hopefully the CBT will be really helpful.

Message withdrawn

Hello all - hello GP. Sorry to hear Fiona is mucking up dd's music now. How are you feeling about AD's? Thinking of you

Good here -ds is lifted by his acting debut although his hand washing is as bad as ever - he seems to more matter of fact about, and I've been the same (so I'm pleased to be helping rather than getting angry with him)

Threadworm - I am not anti-ADs in any shape or form - just that I honestly don't know enough about how well they work on children to venture much of an opinion either way. It does sound like poor grace's DD's quality of life is really affected by the OCD - the handwashing stuff is an absolute bugger for that, as it really screws up your interactions with your physical environment - so possibly that's why meds are being suggested at the mo - or possibly if they feel grace's DD is becoming depressed.

hello. Souvenir, the Immanuel Kant thread was about minge topiary, and it was very very funny indeed, and should be an mn classic if it is not.

DD doesn't have handwashing, thank fuck. She has pretty much everything else instead.

The reason the psychiatrist suggested the anti d's was as a kind of "holding " therapy whilst we are waiting for the CBT. Apparently increasing her serotonin levels will make her less likely to get stuck on the obsessive thoughts and consequently the rituals, ie it might make life more bearable for all of us whilst we wait for her therapy. But it will not cure her, and it will not teach her anything.

On an up note, I had an hour's phone consultation with the private CBT therapist last night. It was only history taking, so no concrete advice or owt, but she seemed competent.

I have been having niggling doubts about externalising the OCD in dd's case - she is SO conscientious and sweet that she finds it v painful when we all go round saying "fucking fiona" and ends up having to apologise to it - and she said that yes, sometimes it is actually the worst thing to do. So now I am feeling v guilty about that.

Mrs JD, brilliant about your son, hurrah hurrah.

Hello to everyone else. Berolina I hope you are ok darlin.
xx

Oh thanks Hogiabach, I really appreciate your input. I think I will hold off getting more resources for the moment as we have books and stuff coming out of our ears. Luckily I have the ear of a private therapist for the next month whilst we wait for treatment, so hopefully she will be able to steer us in the right direction.

They were initially reluctant to prescribe the anti d's incidentally, but when they realised the severity of the ocd and the gap between assessment and treatment, they thought it would be a good idea.
xx

just checking in on you all and sending love xxx

sorry, I misunderstood re:the handwashing. ADs did, if not cure, dramatically help my OCD. The first bad spate I supposedly had CBT, but in fact just chatted to a genial old chap about starting uni in a few months time - bizarre. The second bad spate, I had started CBT privately as I was PG, so did CBT before the ADs, but the CBT didn't start working until I was on the ADs.

Oh really TC? It didn't work before that?
Hmmmmm. Need to make a decision, feel really torn.

grace - hello! Sorry the appt wasn't much cop. I have to say I'm with Threadworm on the ADs issue. ADs might just help put her in a position to fight on and make the most of the CBT when it comes.

Your dd sounds such a darling, really - it might take time for her to learn it's okay to 'hate'/be against Fiona. Of course it's going to be difficult for her at times - Fiona (she feels) is a part of her, after all. I would keep up showing what a PITA you think Fiona is - sometimes it is the worst thing, in which case she can ask you to back off, but sometimes it will be what she needs.

Would you like me to send some audiobooks for her?

I had got very depressed by the time I started the ADs though - because I was PG, GP and counsellor basically fobbed me off as long as they could.

Possibly if telling a part of herself to f-off is upsetting her, would it be helpful to use a different analogy - that she is in a way "allergic" to her thoughts - so that instead of just disregarding the odd normal paranoid thought (did I really remember to lock the door/switch the cooker off), the thought just lingers and causes more anxiety.

Hi. Yes. I am taking all of your comments on and musing on them beardedly. They are all v helpful. Thanks. Lots.

Berolina that is so sweet to offer audio books. I am trying to get her out of the house as much as possible because I think she was actually beginning to get depressed - I mean no fucking wonder. So for instance today it was polling day and she went with a friend to a small local zoo and there was animal handling and monkey feeding and it was BRILLIANT. And then she managed to go to her drama class, and the teacher said she was BRILLIANT there too.

So at the moment I feel
which hasn't happened for AGES.

Glad you and your lovely daughter had a good day today.

We did the animal handling thing at Edinburgh Zoo last week. Brill!

that's wonderful gracepaley am so pleased for you !
Am struggling myself with control anxieties as our kitchen is being gutted and refitted and it has sent me into a spin - keep checking that things are where they should be,which they very obviously aren't - wires and pipes and gas pipes galore - I cannot control what's going on and it is making me very nervy ! but hey, I really should be able to deal with it !

Hi all. i have an 11 yr old with v mild ocd, which are managable & dealt with when they rear their head. i have mild OCD, my sister has OCD but my mother is the person with REALLY bad OCD. for the past 2 years we have supported her whilst she became obsessed with being paralised, this in turn led to her fear of wetting or messing the bed, this in turn led her to stop eating or drinking and it was only a stay in hospital for severe dehydration (touch & go) that got her drinking a little (and i mean a sip or 2 a day).

2 years down the line we are still going through it. she will not eat a full dinner (manages 1 spoonful of everything) or drink anything other than milk. she is still obsessed about wetting or messing the bed.

Her OCD started when she was 5 after a traumatic event in her childhood. it started with handwashing & tidying, progressed to religious OCD, then to checking (would take an hour to get out). everything got worse when my nan died 5 years ago.

she has been on AD's of EVERY kind, AP's & benzos and they have done nothing to help. she has spent time in the past and is at present in a MH centre which gives us a break but doesnt help the situation. Her symptoms got hold of her so much that she has tried several methods of suicide in the past 2 years, is registered disabled due to spondulosis, has ME? and had a heart attack last year

i know the STRESS Grace must be under. the family understand that mums rituals & behaviour is not logical/rational we lose the plot, shout at her at times but it really doesnt help and ends up with her apologising and us feeling bad. But to her they are very real. i explain that although i feel they are not logical i understand that to her they are very real and must be quite scary.

We are awaiting an incare at the maudsley but have waited 2 years due to lack of funding.

when my daughter has an episode i make her aware that it is a thought/feeling to her and that it is ok to feel that way as long as SHE remains in control of it.

I try to control my own OCD in the same way. i Know my 2 rituals and as long as they dont affect my everyday life then i can deal with them. i also know that i MUST stay in charge of them, which is hard when you are mentaly/physically and emotionally FKD from dealing with everyone elses.

Your are doing a wonderful job grace by being a caring mother.
i am working my way through a book called
the OCD work book(2nd edition) by bruce M Hyman PH.D.

it gives sections for family and also how to try to break free from the OCD.

The terrifying part for the sufferer isnt so much doing the ritual it is the WHAT IF I DONT, that takes over.

i hope you get the help your daughter deserves and that unlike my family it doesnt continue any longer than it should.