Braces in the UK when living abroad?

[dasza79]

Hi all!
We live abroad, left the UK a few years ago. My partner works for a British company and pays UK taxes and NI as well.
Both kids need braces, which are somewhat pricey where we live. I'm curious whether it's at all possible to get them in the UK and how to get round it? We still have an English address we use for some purposes (banking etc).
To clarify - I'm only thinking about it becasue we do pay our NI in the UK, I wouldn't do it otherwise.

Apart from the logistics of attending appointments every 6-8 weeks and getting to the orthodontist quicky if a brace breaks, how would you access an orthodontist? You would need to be with a NHS dentist who would then need to refer you to the orthodontist if the teeth are considered bad enough. This alone (in our experience at least) take several visits before you are added to the waiting list for an orthodontist.

DD(16) is about a year into NHS orthodontic treatment; waiting list was about 18 months before lockdown and then our appointment came through about 6 months later.

NHS dentist (kids are free, adults are private at our practice) pulled out 6 baby teeth before treatment started last September. She has old-style train tracks.

Kids can get refused if their oral hygiene is poor.

We go back every 3-6 months (and book the next appointment each visit). They are pretty good at letting older children have early appointments, but they aren't keen to rearrange.

Luckily we've not had any breakages, but I had many unscheduled interim trips to fix braces myself.

I would have thought that airfares back and forth (and a hotel?) would wipe out any costs savings.

Right, I'm gonna end it here.
Thank you all for informative contributions - it does seem too difficult and problematic to do it this way, good to know and time to start planning ahead.
The rest - please, consider not wasting your time and refrain from expressing your moral stance on things when you're not asked about it. It's petty and stinks of religious zealotry. People differ in what they feel/think is right, and there are too many instances in the history, including the most recent one, where "legal" does not equal morally correct. We're free to make our own judgements internally and act upon them as we see fit.
Apologies for letting myself getting overheated on occasion. Ah, the internet...

Ok, you’re not lying but mistaken.

The U.K. doesn’t collect income tax from expats’ earned income when they are abroad. He would only be paying tax on income that is from the U.K.- ie if you rented out a U.K. property.

The USA is the only country in the world that collects income tax earned abroad from its citizens.

So if you’re not lying, you are mistaken

What country is this? It sounds like a very unusual DTA.
The only expats that pay U.K. income tax on income earned abroad are military and civil service.

He works remotely for a UK company. Hos contract and taxes haven't changed since moving countries.
Accusingly people of lying is a low thing to do, mostly done by those who are quite keen on lying themes, in my experience.

I work in the NHS and we have so many expats claiming ‘free’ treatment, quite a few retain a UK address by renting out their house or subletting their social housing whilst living abroad. I would support ID cards so we know who is entitled to NHS treatment free at the point of access. Everyone else can also use the NHS but would be charged the going rate. I suspect a substantial number of patients will then silently ‘disappear’

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice

The U.K. doesn’t collect income tax from expats’ earned income when they are abroad. He would only be paying tax on income that is from the U.K.- ie if you rented out a U.K. property.

It’s a bit subtle and there are niche cases so TBH I’d be wary of claiming anyone is lying or even mistaken

In certain circumstances you can be a non UK resident but employee of a UK company and you can very definitely end up paying at least some UK income tax on your salary and also the full employees NI.

The country of residence also taxes and raises social charges on the individual but hopefully the various taxation agreements insure the individual doesn’t get dinked for double tax.

It’s something that is not uncommon in some jobs where the company HQ is in one country but the workforce, or at least some of it, can be mobile (e.g. some parts of the transport industry).

Portugal. But I think there is some confusion here as to the nature of his work - he works for the same company and with the same contract he did when we were living in the UK. Luckily the tax scheme in Portugal allows us to remain taxable in the country of income rather than residence for the first 10 years. We're lucky his work's nature makes a full remote employment possible, it was one of the factors that contributed to moving abroad.

Sounds credible to this poster, see my previous about mobile workers….

Sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Yes I am aware. Usually the DTA means that whilst you may get NI credits because you’ve paid the host country their social security taxes- you didn’t actually pay NI to the U.K. The same with earned income, it is taxed at source first and then you get a FTC which then means even if you end up paying some small U.K. tax (in certain rare situations when working for a private employer) it would not be as OP implied the same U.K. tax as anyone in the U.K. with the same income.

I really don't know how it works in the other circumstances - for us it is just that - his working conditions haven't changed. It's lucky, the Portuguese taxes are higher than in the UK and the brackets are lower. If he was to pay the income tax according to the Portuguese system we would end up with much less income.

Yes, thank you. I thought he was working for British company’s office located in another country from your OP. What you have is remote working, it’s a loophole that won’t last long imho.

The whole taxes thing is pretty insane. We've got an accountant and a page on local finances services to keep tabs on what we owe and when, but even with all these safety measures I'm still panicking occasionally, expecting a huge bill to come through. People get caught off guard very often, ending up broke after years of not being aware they need to pay taxes on properties abroad, or passive income, etc etc. Embarrassingly enough in my many years I have never properly looked into any of that, just getting on with what I was told needs to be done.

If NHS treatment, and both accepted most unlikely to have both children get to the top of a roughly 2 year wait lost at the same time. So cost of travelling over x2 needs to be considered. Factor in this is the NHS, you may travek and find out last minute the apt is cancelled due to staff illness. Nor can you choose the time of your appointment so accommodation needed.

I understand your reasons for asking the question, it's actually quite an interesting topic!

However, doubt your children would get on an NHS dentist these days.

Out of curiosity, how much are the braces in Portugal? I've just had a quote for Invisalign coming in at £3900 and my teeth aren't too bad compared to some just my front two teeth seem to be starting to move forward and look like in a few years could be hanging out my mouth and the lower teeth have 2 moving forward.

Yes I am aware. Usually the DTA means that whilst you may get NI credits because you’ve paid the host country their social security taxes- you didn’t actually pay NI to the U.K.

We may just be at cross purposes, maybe not, but this is still an “it depends” There are certainly some UK based jobs where non-res employees are paid on the UK payroll and they most definitely pay full UK NI, the real thing, not credits. The host country then usually exempts that employee from local social charges on that income.

The same with earned income, it is taxed at source first and then you get a FTC which then means even if you end up paying some small U.K. tax (in certain rare situations when working for a private employer) it would not be as OP implied the same U.K. tax as anyone in the U.K. with the same income.

I would agree that that is how that should work - the important thing is that many “expats” do get assessed for Income Tax by UK HMRC and quite often end up paying HMG some tax.

To cut to the chase it really is quite possible, depending on exact circumstances, that despite being non-resident the OP and/or their DH are still paying full UK NI and at least some UK income tax. That seemed to be something that some seemed to have trouble believing was credible and maybe led to some unfortunate allegations.

All that said it’s still the case that the OP and their family do not appear to have access to the NHS.

Exactly of course they aren't paying NI

In some circumstances I can promise you it’s perfectly possible to be non-res and yet pay full NI on your salary…For example I did it for twenty years plus, right up until when I retired from my (UK based) job.

It’s 3 months wait to be assessed where I am. Ds2 will qualify for braces as his teeth need major shuffling. It will be an orthodontist appointment every 6-8 weeks for two years plus though.

Sorry didn’t mean to quote there. If you are paying tax / NI here won’t that mean you are ordinarily resident for tax/ medical purposes.

This. Ordinarily you pay taxes in the country in which you are resident. No way are you living overseas and paying tax and NI in the UK. Unless in the military or something similar - I don't know if that's different?

I've just read you're living in Portugal. Absolutely no way can you legally live in Portugal and pay taxes in UK.

This. Ordinarily you pay taxes in the country in which you are resident. No way are you living overseas and paying tax and NI in the UK. Unless in the military or something similar - I don't know if that's different?

We did this twice.
It is perfectly possible to do this for different reasons.