Braces in the UK when living abroad?

[dasza79]

Hi all!
We live abroad, left the UK a few years ago. My partner works for a British company and pays UK taxes and NI as well.
Both kids need braces, which are somewhat pricey where we live. I'm curious whether it's at all possible to get them in the UK and how to get round it? We still have an English address we use for some purposes (banking etc).
To clarify - I'm only thinking about it becasue we do pay our NI in the UK, I wouldn't do it otherwise.

Yes, I get that. But that is technicality, not ian mmoral attempt to steal from anyone tho, is it? We do not use any other British services, schools, doctors, etc. And we do pay for them - so who is stealing from who?

Spain is the closest, or France. I will be looking at the private insurance, hopefully there are some options. It's not like we completely cannot afford it but it will strain the budget somewhat. But needs must :-) There are so many intricacies involved with living abroad, small differences that you aren't aware beforehand. For example, here you have to pay for all school books and school materials, which we can do, but I really don't know how some of my neighbours manage...

I would never advise anyone to embark upon any dental treatment, particularly one which requires multiple appointments , in a different country to the one where they live.

The average course for brace work is 18 months to 2 years. It needs multiple appointments (every 8 ish weeks ) and good communication with your normal dentist if eg teeth need to come out or need building up etc.

That is without bits of braces breaking, getting lost , etc and double that for two children . The logistics will be madness.

Get the braces done in the country you are in , you will spend far more in time and sweat going backwards and forwards every few weeks.

Unless you're going to pay privately in UK then I think your kids will need to be referred by a UK dentist, nhs or private.
Remember ANYTHING remotely medical will want details of the GP so probably may need to be registered with GP local to your UK home

The threshold for referral for nhs orthodontic treatment is high. If it is cosmetic rather than functionally necessary you would not qualify even if you met the ordinarily resident criteria.

But needs must :-) There are so many intricacies involved with living abroad, small differences that you aren't aware beforehand. For example, here you have to pay for all school books and school materials, which we can do, but I really don't know how some of my neighbours manage

I assume you moved to Portugal to take advantage of the low tax rate (you mention the 10 year agreement) so surely you're saving a lot of money compared to living in the UK?

Just out of curiosity at this point, as it does seem much easier and probably cheaper as well to just do it here - what qualifies? My daughter has only a slight misaligment and the dentist said she recommends braces, but doesn't deem them necessary. The son is the main issue - his teeth are giant and the new ones will be coming out behind the front 2 gnashers, dentist says palate extenders and hopes to avoid braces in the future. His dad had 4 teeth removed at that age. Do you think that would be a qualifier?

This explains IOTN which is used to grade your child’s teeth. Very possibly your daughter wouldn’t qualify , your son possibly would. https://anglehouse.com/iotn/

However you need to have an NHS or private dentist in the U.K. in the area you live to refer you. The waiting list in most areas is between 1 and 4 years .

Difficult to say, there is a grading system to assess eligibility. Ds had nhs treatment for overbite and small jaw(twin block expander and train tracks) so did qualify but dd had a few misaligned teeth and would not. Having said that private treatment would have been about 3k for dd but she chose not to. Ds wait for his referral to hospital assessment was about 18 months though then appointments about every 8-10 weeks over 3 years.

You know what happens when you assume something? We moved to Portugal to change the scenery and give kids a chance of growing up with more experiences than they'd have if they spent their whole life in one country. being naive to the whole tax rodeo we didn't really look into any of that until we had to, after arriving here, when we got an accountant to help us through the loops. So, for the first 10 years we pay the UK taxes, after that we will see. The social security has to be paid here. Not sure what would you find condemnable about it? "Saving" isn't the best word for the living costs. It is more affordable in some ways, that's true. On the other hand there is a global increase of costs on anything, including Portugal. Going private here is definitely more affordable than doing so in the UK.

Personal Income tax and NI do not cover all the services offered in the UK. There are plenty of other taxes we pay that you do not, including VAT and fuel duty. Your DH employer is also not paying any contribution on profits earned there. You say you are not using those services; will you not claim a UK pension in due course? If your DH lost his job would you come back here and educate your kids here and claim benefits here? If you were arrested there, or your passport was lost would you not make use of the embassy? You are making use of those taxes simply by virtue of expecting those things to be there when you want to use them. You are also using them as a means to escape local taxes.

It seems you want to have your cake and eat it.

As others have said, loads of taxes that you don't pay as a UK resident.
And for all the other reasons it's a crazy idea in any case.

I'd very much rather have a cake and eat it than be the type of selfrighous maniac who gets a kick from going online to not answer questions asked just express their virtue (what is it exactly, by the way? Not moving abroad at all, ever? Moving and paying double, in the country if residence and origin? Rolling over onto your back and asking the tax people to please, take as much as you can?). It's not me avoiding paying the taxes here, it's the system that is in place and not a matter of choice. Bloody hell.

I would assume that getting braces where you are vs travelling to uk for the regular appointments is the better deal financially and practically.

yes it can be costly but most orthodontists offer payment plans.

It is unrealistic. We live an hour away from the orthodontist and that has been painful enough. Braces can break and need emergency appointments.

So that makes it alright? You know others are defrauding the system so you may as well join in, and you are using services already paid for/ haven’t used them so have some form of entitlement. You would be stealing benefits. You just have a high option of yourself and can’t admit it. You would be reducing the public purse, already under strain. I am not sure why I am bothering to spell it out - you appear arrogant and seem to expect special treatment.

Agreed, it’s not that unusual

Depends on the job and domestic set up but you can very definitely and very legitimately end up with liability to income tax and UK NI/social charges in both the UK and another country - exactly how it works varies.

However that doesn’t give a right to access NHS services…as you say, that’s residence not contribution based.

Do stop blustering. You now appear to be one of those people who has to have the last word, however, silly, vacuous and desperate they might be.

The entitlement to NHS care is not linked to payment of tax or NI which is why the unemployed, foreign students, children and those who are so disabled they are unable to work all qualify for it.

It is linked to having a permanent residence in the U.K. which you do not have. The clue here is that you are going to have to lie to access the service. So what you propose is by very definition dishonest.

I honestly don’t get what the moral argument you are trying to run here is! You want to dishonestly claim something you don’t qualify for. It’s absolutely no different or morally excusable than any other form of fraud. If you are going to do it, do it but at least have the minimal integrity to own your dishonesty here.

So, what is the virtue that you're signalling then? I'm trying to apply logic to most of my actions and sentiments, clearly in great shortage for some.

Again. Initially I was not clear on the residency requirement. Some helpful souls clarified it, then a discussion commenced, some of it productive, most definitely not.
Many here seem to have a deep rooted desire to assume the worst (in their eyes), and carry on. For me this is quite unthinkable. Why would I go out of my way to insult people if I had nothing to actually say on their question? What a waste of time and resources, really. And in poor taste, but that's another matter.
Taxes are inevitable, most normal people will do their best to minimise the damage.
I'm not trying to justify anything, just asked a question and then got pulled into this nonsensical debate over some attempting to insult me and me simply disagreeing with the premise of insults.
Would be nice to be able to converse civilly, eh?

You're not the brightest, are you? Understanding of the text is a good quality.

No, most normal people do not want to try to minimise the damage - not if they want taxpayer-funded services, which you clearly do.

I'd say a huge no to that for the logistics of it.

Eldest DD has braces on the NHS - her teeth did qualify but the criteria is quite strict.

Even if your children do qualify you will have appointments every 6 weeks or so and that will involve the expense of getting there and back.

Also do not underestimate the amount of times the brackets will pop off the teeth etc, necessitating an emergency appointment to fix. DD had about 4 appointments in 4 weeks due to things coming off at o e point during her treatment.

For those reasons alone, I cannot see it being worth it or saving you money factoring in all those trips. Braces could be on for years. We're 3 years in and counting.

Did your whole family live abroad full time for several years? That is unusual!

Only just seen this, yes we did. I think the taxes was because it was an in company transfer and not permanent, so the base unit was still in the UK.
It happened on two occasions in different countries.
Stopping when we localized to another country.
It is complicated and you have to double file taxes etc.
We didn't however imagine we were entitled to residency based services in the UK.