Zoe app - totally amateur for the high price

[MrsKypp]

I am enjoying the glucose monitor although I could have saved loads of money if I'd just bought that instead of Zoe.

I keep asking Zoe what exactly do they mean by big / moderate / slight spike in blood glucose after a meal. In mmol as per the glucose monitor.

They won't, presumably can't, answer. So it's completely subjective guesswork then as to what a big spike is, or a moderate one etc,

Their app asks us to say how much of a spike we saw on our monitor, yet refuse to say how many mmol. How can I possibly answer that accurately when the glucose monitor works in mmol while Zoe works with descriptors "big" "moderate" "small" ?????

I am SO DISAPPOINTED I have spent so much money on this unscientific vague subjective annoying Zoe thing.

Photo attached: we had been chatting but she couldn't answer so simply diappeared.

Ok she has come back now with a sort of answer that is generic rather than related to their own questionnaire, but she is trying at least. Not the chat assistant's fault Zoe hasn't provided them with the info.

YAY!!!

I've got my answer more or less 🙂The chat assistant is really great, she is clearly doing her best to find out.

I can see she's copy-pasting from generic info which is weird she has to do that - why doesn't Zoe have a doc with ranges the guidelines for the questions they pose themselves in their own app?

So now I know I can reply that my spike after the rice test was "moderate" (?)

Fasting 5.5 mmol/L
Peak glucose postprandial 10.3 mmol/L
After 1h15 postprandial 7.3 mmol/L

If anyone wants to join my monologue, please do! 😂

Not to answer your question, but if you are after more info, I’ve found the unofficial Facebook groups really helpful.

Edited to add, one is called Zoë insights plan and there is a nutrition one too.

@Cheeesus

Ah that sounds ideal!! Thanks - could I PM you for a link?

There is only 0.1 mmol/L difference between moderate (up to 11 mmol/L) and high (up to 11.1 mmol/ or higher), so I am still rather confused, but seeing as my peak reading was 10.3 mmol/L I won't ask about that.

No advice but my zoe muffins are waiting in the freezer for me to start the program so I’m glad you posted this as now I’ll know how to answer! :)

You're judging too soon.

The helpful bit of Zoe is the food scoring and the coaching, even if you're into the science and know lots about diets.

However, it may not be for you and ymmv.

@Spottywombat

You are right!

Zoe have now replied more and really are helpful.

I have asked Mumsnet to delete this whole thread.

@mosiacmaker

Great!

Jot those ranges down because I've asked for this thread to be deleted 🙂

Here’s the link <a class="break-all" href="https://m.facebook.com/groups/447523176676235/?ref=sharem.facebook.com/groups/447523176676235/?ref=share&exp=93fa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://m.facebook.com/groups/447523176676235/?ref=sharem.facebook.com/groups/447523176676235/?ref=share&exp=93fa

Oh that looks like it didn’t work. Try searching on fb and if that doesn’t work do pm me.

The food scoring and coaching was pointless for me. I acknowledge that that was probably because I had devoured every scrap of material I could get my hands on, on their approach while I was on the waiting list to join the test so that there was little new for me to learn from the test.

The quizzes to check my understanding of material presented in the app really irritated me because the correct answer was always all of the above with no attempt to control for anything.

The CGM was really really useful, got me in touch with how my body responds to sugar in all its forms in a way that was highly effective at putting me off eating sugar and starch.

Overall, the effect has been positive well 'as desired' in that my weight which had crept up significantly has been dropping v v slowly, averaging loss of one pound per month so that in my sixties, my BMI is in the normal range for the first time since I was a teenager and I am free of my mothers desire that her family should be slim.

I bought extra CGM s to test my reactions each year. So far, it's all good and I feel great. My skin glows and I have energy to do whatever I want, no need to sleep after a meal.

If I were to do it again, I would still have read everything they have published, had the tests done independently and spent the rest of the not inconsiderable cost on an annual CGM check.

I did this over a year ago and was part of the beta testing when it was first launched. I expect it's improved since then but it was very much cheaper and more accessible than anything else, even their 1st lot of testing in the US.

@Cheeesus

Thanks!

@FinallyHere

Thanks for your reply. I think I feel the same as you really.

Great news about your BMI !

I was also thinking the same about the tests and also repeating the CGM directly from Libre.

@FinallyHere

Regarding the health quizzes there are serious issues - I did report one and they agreed. Not sure why they hadn't realised. It was about the menopause: they assume the various symptoms in the questionnaire can only be from the menopause and give no option to explain other possible causes eg diagnoses or medications. I found that incredibly weird and amateur. Possibly sexist too.

@FinallyHere, it sounds as though you’ve cracked it.

Do you think good results are possible if I buy my own CGM and cut out any foods that cause a high spike for me?

why delete the thread? this could help people. I don't understand the logic

@EauNeu

I agree and have just asked Mumsnet if they could NOT delete it after all. I hope they see my second request in time before they delete.

I felt guilty for being so negative about Zoe because the chat people really did make an effort to answer my questions. They had disappeared off for ages, but I think they were trying to find the answers.

This thread will not be deleted. Mumsnet emailed me to say that, so please feel confident that your replies won't disappear.

I'm sorry OP but zoe is essentially a money making scam. they have no evidence backed data that their specific approach actually makes a difference. human physiology is very robust. the cheap and cheerful less calories, more exercise, drink water, eat a balanced diet and cut junk works very well and doesn't cost the earth.

I’ve tried that before and it hasn’t worked. My results show I have better fat control than sugar, knowing that has made a difference to what I eat.

@tt9 I tend to agree - and this be done Zoe

The answer is ALWAYS add extra virgin olive oil, nuts, kefir and kimchi basically. You end up with a really calorific plate in front of you as you battle to turn a poor score into a good one

And at the very core of this is the boring but true facts ... eat less processed food and move a bit more.

That is honestly it. Nobody who isn't diabetic or otherwise unwell needs to be monitoring their blood sugar spikes.. they're supposed to spike.

This is a plan for the worried well and I'd honestly save your money - wish I had

@ClarkWGriswaldd indeed. we have done many extensive studies in ITU patients for example comparing v strict BM control to just standard itu monitoring level BM monitoring where we are happy if its somewhere in the normal range (obviously there are exceptions depending on pathology). we found patients actually did worse or there was no difference.

these zoe like approaches are overly complicated based on very early days of gut flora research. personalised nutrition is coming, just not here yet. and ultimately we don't really 'need' it.

I can understand in a modern stressful environment it can give a helpful framework for healthy eating for some. doesn't justify the price however. better to go to a dietician who can help improve one's diet.

@ClarkWGriswaldd and @tt9

Thanks for your replies, very interesting indeed.

I suspect Spector et al saw a way to earn a bucket load of money while at the same time increasing their knowledge without having to spend energy or money on studies.

Some parts of Zoe seem like a high school project, such as not knowing ranges to categorise spikes to match their own descriptors, and the way they assume ALL hot flushes, insomnia, anxiety, fatigue etc in post menopausal females are exclusively due to the menopause (despite the obvious fact that there are various medical conditions and/or medications that can cause things like those symptoms).

I am on day 5 and feel royally ripped off; however, I don't necessarily regret doing it because I like the CGM and how the process is forcing me to think more about my body's response to food.

Looking forward to reading more replies here!