Unvaccinated children for those interested

[blisteringbarnacles]

Hi
I'm sorry everybody but doubletroublemaker was really me. I was just in an antsy mood at what I saw to be blind faith in government recommendations and changed my name to stir up debate, though apart from that I was posting in good faith. Do forgive me (or not --don't blame you) but I'm now about to post various bits of information that people expressed an interest in. I can't do a link due to mumsnet techno illiteracy but am copying and pasting some stuff which you may want to google or investigate further. Or not.

"In Chicago, Homefirst Medical Services treats thousands of never-vaccinated children whose parents received exemptions through Illinois' relatively permissive immunization policy. Homefirst's medical director, Dr. Mayer Eisenstein, told us he is not aware of any cases of autism in never-vaccinated children. The national rate is 1 in 175, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "We have a fairly large practice," Eisenstein says. "We have about 30,000 or 35,000 children that we've taken care of over the years, and I don't think we have a single case of autism in children delivered by us who never received vaccines. "We do have enough of a sample," Eisenstein said. "The numbers are too large to not see it. We would absolutely know. We're all family doctors. If I have a child with autism come in, there's no communication. It's frightening. You can't touch them. It's not something that anyone would miss."

Just a starter, now I'm going to look for more, particularly on allergies.

Four of the studies are in German. Here are the rough findings ..I can give the URL but they are all in German.

Salzburger Elternstudie (Survey of / by parents) (2001-2005) Results: Unvaccinated children -- virtually no asthma; vaccinated 1 in 10

Englische Kohortenstudie (1988 - 1999) Results: Vaccinated children are up to 14 times more likely to have asthma than the unvaccinated and up to nine times more like to have skin problems.

Langzeitstudie in Guinea-Bissau: Results The death rate for unvaccinated children is about half that of the vaccinated.

Schwedische Studie an Waldorfschulen: Results Unvaccinated kids have a lower risk of allergies

Not that helpful ..I mean without being able to read the studies yourselves. But still going.

Here's another one. Going to stop now at risk of boring or irritating people, and don't mean to start a debate just post information for the possibly interested.

www.homefirst.com/cal-oregon_unvaccinated_survey.html

Again apologies for poor name change etiquette. Does moon-o-meter provide any excuse among women? Probably not.

In fact glad to be posting at night so it drops off active convos.

not when i remember it and bump it for yurt1 .

Ain't she a marvel though.
But twiglett will squish her when she gets back from the theatre doncha know.

Would you mind posting the urls bb? I'd be really interested to read the studies and if I can't translate it on the web I've got a friend who can do German.

no problem

Salzburger Elternstudie (Survey of / by parents)
(2001-2005) Results:
Unvaccinated children -- virtually no asthma;
vaccinated 1 in 10;
and three to five times less Neurodermatis....
www.impf-portal.de/aktuell/fragebo/fraboaus10.doc

Englische Kohortenstudie (1988 - 1999) Results:
Vaccninated children are up to 14 times more likely to
have asthma than the unvaccinated and up to nine times
more like to have skin problems.
www.impf-report.de/jahrgang/2005/02.htm#06

Langzeitstudie in Guinea-Bissau Results
The death rate for unvaccinated children is about half
that of the vaccinated. [Ungeimpfte Kinder haben im
Vergleich mit geimpften Kindern ein um die Hälfte

now there's a turn off for the skimmers and lurkers...
geringeres Sterberisiko]
www.ratio2000.de/gesundheit/news/news0104.htm

Schwedische Studie an Waldorfschulen Results
Unvaccinated kids have a lower risk of allergies...
[Ungeimpfte Kinder haben im Vergleich zu geimpften
Kindern ein geringeres Allergierisiko].
www.waldorflibrary.org/journal_articles/rb5103.pdf

my little "amusing" hem comment should have been at the bottom of that

i hope you find them interesting

ds is unvaccinated.

given how much worry i have over it, it is good sometimes to hear that we may have done the right thing by his health.

ds is unvaccinated.

given how much worry i have over it, it is good sometimes to hear that we may have done the right thing by his health.

Thanks a lot, will plough through that

how the weekend will fly by for you
must away to my boudoir

does that same doctor have stats on how many children die or become seriously ill or disabled becuase they caught a disease they didn't vaccinate against?

i mean if vaccinations are so rubbish - why do we have them or spend money on them at all?

is it like the aliens? a big govt cover up? they like to keep us scared?

or is it becuase without the vaccinations the consequences for society as a whole would be catastrophic

and the only reason why some mothers can consider it a choice is becuase MOST mothers vaccinate - creating a low risk environment

only the thing is - more and more are now not vaccinating and the risk is increasing.

Custardo you are keeping me from my bed..

You could get the stats elsewhere.. certainly fewer people die of measles than the 1400 people who die of asthma in the UK every year

Er yes, they do like to keep us scared! How many fake measles epidemics have they predicted in the last ten years!

The consequences of injecting mercury into babies have indeed been catastrophic

And vaccinated children shouldn't catch the disease they're vaccinated against. Unless of course you've been sold a dud and they don't work.

Don't worry, if yours is/are vaccinated you should have confidence in your choice and not worry about them catching these things.

Glib comment warning: herd immunity is just a sales rap.

"Don't worry if ours are vaccinated"?

What's this thread doing then?

Dangerous

what has asthma got to do witht he price of eggs - there isnt an injection to help me with mine

i bet fewer people die of measles than thee are 3 legged cats too.

to what end are the govt trying to keep us scared?

i dont know about injecting mercury and what the catastrophe is - as opposed to society as a whole declaring that they are not vaccinating - i repeat - it is only a choice for some becuase most of us do.

oh i have confidence completely in my choice. - but just get pissed of at people trying to make out that they can make a better choice - a better choice by not vaccinating - when they can only do so becuase the diseases which are vaccinated against are not prevelant in society. it certainly doesnt mean that i cannot have a viewpoint or contribute

i have no idea what your last comment means. that i have bought into something that is useless?

if so i suggest you read up on your history a little bit. it wasn't so long ago things like whooping cough polio and measles were debilitating and heart wrenching to watch for mothers. i am sure many grannies have similar stories.

i am sure there is some pharmacutical rip off - we are getting one drug bcuase that company funds undeclared thousands into the campaign funds of polititions - but i do not believe that vaccinations in their entirity are a misnoma or ruse - and i dont believe that becuase of relatively recent history.

hear hear custy

OMG, every parent would love to NOT vaccinate their child, but we all do it for the greater good - that is to live in a society which is free from hideous, debilitating and fatal diseases. A healthy society which unvaccinated children are benefitting from but which are also going some length, in their growing numbers, to once again turn unhealthy.

We are all in this together, let's be responsible fgs. Your kids are no more special than ours.

y'just knwo we're gonna get battered egypt

"fewer people die of measles than the 1400 people who die of asthma in the UK every year"

should be the tag line to a vaccination campaign me thinks

fire away

As someone that wasn't vaccinated as child, due to having asthma and other allergies rife in the family, dr's advice, not parents btw and having caught whooping cough, measles and mumps , all in my last year of primary school, I think I can add to this

Mumps was nasty but I just remember it being painful and feeling unwell

Measles was awful, I don't have words to say just how awful it was. I couldn't get out of bed for nearly 2 weeks, due to fever, aches and weakness. I had it in my eyes, I'll NEVER forget how that felt, across between being poked in the eye and when smoke gets in them and looking at the sun, even with velvet curtains and sunglasses, tiniest bit of light absolutely killed

Whooping cough was terrifying. The coughing attacks would happen many, many times a day and not being able to catch your breath and feeling you are about to pass out or actually pass out from lack of air. If I didn't pass out, I would vomit and sometimes inhale the vomit, which made the coughing worse. This went on for over SIX weeks! I have had asthma all my life, this was a million times more scary as there was no relief

People think these are harmless diseases, they are not. I was 12, how on earth can a baby deal with these symptoms??

I was advised not to have my youngest vaccinated as she had brain damage and a history of fitting (the didn't want a small spike in temperature to spark a fit)

I instisted she was. I never, ever want to see my child or any child go through what I went though

In my parents time as children, so many kids died from these 'harmless' diseases, I had an uncle who dies at 2 years old from measles

Do we really want to go back to those times??

And what about the more vunerable children, they will no longer benefit from the 'herd'. I personally could never live with myself if i hadn't vaccinated and she passed it on to someone more vunerable than her

I wonder how many adults that had measles or whooping cough, would then refuse the vaccinations???? I bet none would

just seen this in OP

"If I have a child with autism come in, there's no communication. It's frightening. You can't touch them."

Well, that's a blanket bollox statement. What sort of Dr is he that would say that? All autistic children are different, some have excellent communication and some like physical contact, and some have one or the other. Very very few children have no communication. A smile or a cry is communication

I'm gobsmacked by that comment, sounds like he needs more training in dealing with children that have autism to me

agree with blanket statement regarding autism... very glib of him.

I have not vaccinated. My midwife showed me alot of information about vaccination from a Western societies perspective, they were cleaning up their act regarding sanitation... effluent.... at a similar time vacinations were introduced... so the trend and incidence of diseases were in sharp decline.

Tiny babies been injected with so many things so young actually gives me the creeps.

My niece was vaccinated for whooping cough but got it anyway. Vaccinated for menigocol but the strain of the virus active was different.

It's a myth that the Amish never vaccinate (back to OP, Dan Olmstead's allegations that have been widely repeated around the Internet). Probably about 20% are vaccinated with something at some point.

The Amish are a reserved people who don't readily engage with outsiders (like Olmstead), and wouldn't be quick to flag up seemingly autistic behaviours as something that needed fixing unless they were physically debilitating problems. They wouldn't easily discuss such concerns outside their own communities, not even with a GP.

Many Amish children attend mainstream schools in US states where they have to get vaccinations, plus they don't like their children being very ill any better than the rest of us. Up to 80% of the Illinois Amish children which Olmstead claimed were unvaccinated, may actually be vaccinated with something (see discussion and source). This survey found that over 50% of Amish children in a Delaware community had been vaccinated with something at some point. There was an uptake by Amish to get measles jab in Penns. after a measles outbreak in 1988.

Meanwhile, because their vacc rates are lower than the main population, the Amish have suffered in last few decades from things like Pertusssis, Rubella, Polio.

56% of Amish immunised according to 1996 study....
The other thing is that Amish are a genetically isolated group. The theory I've heard on MN is that it's a genetically vulnerable subset of people who respond badly to vaccinations. Not a good comparison to Amish who are badly inbred (all descended from just a few hundred original settlers, some of whom were closely related to start with, problems described here).