I am a level-headed science trained adult who has done her research, so why am I still wary of the mmr vaccine?

[bunnyhunny]

Before I start, can I just say that I really dont want to offend anyone whose children have been vaccine damaged, as I realise it must be absolutely devastating, and this is not my aim in posting this.

I have a science background, so I have read the scientific papers about mmr and autism. Overwhelmingly, there is NO evidence of a causal link between mmr and autism. Any evidence appears to be anecdotal. Reading the papers, I think about 30+ papers say there is no link, while very few suggest caution.

So why do I still want to refuse the vaccine? There is no evidence that single vaccines are any better, and thimerasol has apparently been removed from the vaccines anyway.
And ds has eczema and food allergies, but I have also researched this and there is no concern about either of these and the vaccine.

So why am I still resisting it in my head?

PLEASE, someone help me make a decision!!!!

I'm impressed, yurt (re last post). have been re-reading as many of AW and others info as possible, esp over the last few days, and am coming up as always with more questions than there are answers. it's hard to avoid journalists' often wierd misinterpretations of the facts though

Another thing,Yurt... do you think antibiotics are a big factor? I wonder this partly because of someone [asd on severe end of spectrum] who had what i believe to be a negative reaction to them (behaviourally not 'medically') though i had an impossible job trying to convince GP and psych of this. they were struggling with understanding this individual's version of autism so we really didn't get far.
The other reason i ask is because i have wondered about links between antibiotics (taken during pg and also given to child in infancy) and inflamatory bowel conditions and have never discovered an answer i was happy with as a good explanation, the medics do try to avoid issues like this don't they... this is all in relation to my DS1. I have also done things differently with no.2 & 3 once DS1's allergy & digestive problems came to light.
[sorry if i'm hijacking thread at this point, but yurt obv knows what she's talking about and it might help!]

Yes I do think antibiotics can be a big factor. Ds1 regressed following a third course of antibiotics - the third course being consultant prescribed and strong. The type of gut problem that ds1 can supposedly arise in part from a strange gut flora - so antibiotics could be involved- could have made it worse anyway. Although ds3 has the same gut problem and has never had antibs (although I was given iv ones when he was born and he was bfed).

Have you read the Gut article form 2006. It is a really good piece on a potential model describing allergy/autoimmune conditions developing via a leaky gut. It doesn't mention autism but is essentially the same idea as Wakefield's.

I personally think that a leaky gut is almost certainly involved in many cases of autism- especially at the more severe end of the condition. What makes the gut leaky? Probably lots and lots of things have the potential to make the gut leaky- either acting alone or in combination- of course including some genetic susceptibility - which we just assumed ds2 and ds3 had.

Oh meant to say if you want the gut article email me on nezumi35 at googlemail dot com Think that's right. I have to work now and quite a bit of this evening but I'll check it out over the weekend if not before.

thank u
will do. i like the sound of your job,[green] it suits you.

It's not a job really- it's a PhD - but paid so I treat it like a job. Completely flexible so I can get back home to meet ds1 from his school bus etc. I rather like the sound of your job!

pondering - what else do the antibs contain? If sweetners I'd suspect them as causing the individuals negative reaction .... Was it only whilst taking the antibs? or did it lead to a regression (in which case I;d suspect an underlying gut or candida problem - made worse by antibs)

Hi Yurt..
Can I please point you in the direction of a thread about weaning and allergies if you have time? Vaccines and gut issues coming up and maybe there is something interesting?

the candida potential was what i based my case on, we believe that the young man has food intolerances and we keep him dairy free, though sadly this is not continued consistently where he lives. and despite blood tests (?for what) and x-rays, nobody has managed to figure out what is wrong.
I made the point about the issue of capsules as some have gelatin in them, and i know that this is another thing that my DC can't have if it's bovine. they did listen to this, and switched it to medicine, though i don't think that was entirely to do with me, because there was some doubt over whether he was swallowing or spitting the tablets! there seemed to be no understanding of the associated digestive disorders and as i've only read a couple of books on it my knowledge isn't particularly good.
the outcome was deterioration in his behaviour to where he had been years before, with anxiety levels off the scale and no tolerance for other people whereas usually he enjoys being around them.
Am going to find out more about the 'leaky gut' you talk about as I want to understand the physiology of it, atm i'm a bit baffled.

Am also pondering - on whether effects of antibiotics caused DS1's probs, (a mum on a guilt trip again) and many a time we have said he must be on the spectrum, (everyone who works in the autism field can name half of their relatives who have traits though, can't they?!) though then at other times he seems as far away from AS as is possible. He does have dyslexia though. Shall go and ponder some more. I am really just trying to make sense of a bucketful of jigsaw bits, some minor and some more significant, and trying not to apply all the stuff i know from work

Have you seen the Sunderland Autism Research Unit pages gigglewitch? Really useful info there. I think it mentions dyslexia and leaky gut as well (although could be wrong) Gelatin is a no-no for people doing a strict version of the gfcf diet but I can't remember why....

If your client responded well to dairy free he probably needed to be gluten free as well (although it does vary- ds1 for example tolerates goats milk- easier to digest and a different form of casein than friesian cows, many people with ASD don't). Sometimes the gut problems can be exaserpated by digestive issues - which is why secretin is meant to have helped some children (not something I'd do- it needs a GA). An alternative to diet is enzymes. Mandis mart is the place to buy them in the UK.

i have paid for both my boys to have single vacs at 13-14 mths + time but they will have the the mmr jab for pre school booster.this is on the advice of the the people i have paid for single jabs. They say that it is the first set of jabs that course the probs not the following.

Yurt -
Can you explain what you mean by "other heavy metals and heavy metal compounds"? Where are you looking to avoid these...i.e. where do the present themselves (besides the obvious...vaccines)?

PS - Thanks everyone for the advice.

Hi Yurt, I emailed the address you gave me but didn't hear. I'm sure you must be dead busy so definitely not a chivvy! Just wanted to let you know I did follow up with you.. hope your email address is working ok.