That it's a basic human right for kids to be able to use the toilet at school?

[sorrysaywhatnow]

So, fully prepared to be told I'm being unreasonable, that it's disruptive to other students etc, but if your year 9 daughter has her period and is flooding, surely it's BU for teachers to say you can't use the toilet in lesson time unless you have a medical exemption for bladder problems? She had to sit for the entire lesson, refused permission even when she had to describe the problem to the teacher. I mean, really? I knew it was a new policy that the school had introduced, but I think it's ridiculous.

*in your daughter situation.

@Whitestick

I'm very aware that vandalism and bullying etc takes place in school toilets but surely theres a very simple solution of allowing one child at a time? I mean, say you have a class of 30.. surely in one hour, the odd couple of kids that need to go can be allowed simultaneously? At least that way, if something happens in the loo, you as teachers know who was in there so can pinpoint who it was who 'smeared the poo' or whatever... as for teachers just doing what they're told to do... isn't it your job to discuss with your head teacher that you dont agree with not allowing loo breaks (incase they have a period or whatever) still unsure why my post imparticular was "ridiculous"

I am old enough to remember the days where we had many more staff so there was often a spare body around who could nip a pupil to the toilets. The endless cost cutting has stripped out TAs, reduced teaching staff, increased group size, reduced SEN support, removed dyslexia testing, reduced intervention, enrichment and lots of good stuff. There is an easy solution for this and all the other issues.

i have walked out of my classes before when i have been refused the right to excuse myself and go to the toilet. the most i got was a detention that got deducted from my record because a female teacher complained that it was unfair, i have been lucky. i hope everyones children on here have at least one teacher like her in their schools to stick up for them. it is a basic human right, and it is degrading to deny toilet access for those who need it.

@Soontobe60 How can you not see it's an Equalities issue as only females have periods and only they will therefore be affected by menstrual flooding and being prevented from cleaning themselves? There's recent case law covering flooding in menopause and a gathering momentum to add menstrual pain to the legislation

That's to say nothing of a possible disability claim.

Interesting divergence in this thread is between people who think the worst of children and so want to heavily police them; and people who want to treat them with the same dignity they'd afford their colleagues

I’m a teacher, we don’t have the “dignity” of going to the loo whenever we feel like it. It’s also not individual teachers decisions, it is school policy.

I’ve seen the state of toilets after kids have been in them during lessons. Worst was a urinal kicked off the wall.

I do let girls go to the bathroom, the vast majority of kids are utterly wonderful. A number however are very troubled. Trust me you don’t want your daughter alone in a bathroom with one of these kids.
Which could happen if they are let out during a lesson.

More money is needed for greater supervision.

Children shouldn't have to ask permission to relieve themselves!

If the school is concerned they should introduce a signing-out sheet, dated and timed. Then they can monitor whether a particular student is constantly signing out, or if groups of friends are signing out at the same time.

How many of these children in your schools are self harming in the loos or taking drugs....?! That many that you have to lock them .. or maybe the odd one or two that you can keep an eye on and let eveyone else go and sort their period/diarrhoea out?!?

I mean, surely you know as teacher's the ones you are worried about right?...

School's have changed a lot in 15 years... jeez

Both the situation with many secondary school toilets and the position that many teenagers are put in because of it sound horrendous.

One of (relatively few!) reasons why I'm glad that (as both pupil, parent and teacher) I only have experience of single sex private schools. Never had any issues with toilets, the pupils can go if they need to. I guess self harm could be a problem but it would still be a problem at break time so I don't think that's a reason to stop occasional requests to go in lessons.

If I was in a school like these described I'd use a combined policy of two PPs - phones on the teacher's desk and make up the minutes missed. Surely that would cut out almost all the non genuine cases.

New baby we have another 78 classes timetabled at once so that’s a possible tally of 79 kids - actually once you let one go then others go on the way to your lesson or others will kick off so some staff give in and suddenly there can be 100 plus. One can vulnerable all by themselves though. The tales I could tell and my worries that I could miss the child overdosing, being exploited etc

@NeverDropYourMooncup

All of those things could be done anywhere in the school.

By the sound of it you need monitors and CCTV cameras in the communal areas.

Yeah new baby I think you would be surprised …

Children shouldn't need to relieve themselves during lessons unless they have a medical condition and therefore an exemption pass (or whatever system the school uses).

If a girl is flooding so much that standard sanitary protection is inadequate then this also is a medical issue and would warrant an exemption pass.

Otherwise a strict rule of use break and lunch times - that's what they're for.
Kids coming and going to the loos is a huge disruption to a lesson and a safety issue in the loos.

How do teachers stop kids self-harming, taking drugs and sending bullying texts when they are inside a presumably locked cubicle during break time?

I would just have to walk out (I know some children wouldn't do this) because I have terrible periods and ibuprofen doesn't stop flooding for me. My son's school locks the toilets and sometimes they don't get unlocked at break times because whoever is in charge of that either forgets or gets tied up with something else. Therefore, children do ask to use the loo during class, from what my son has told me his teacher's are understanding and usually allow a pupil to go to the toilets, or they ask them to finish a piece of work first if they can. My son's school are really strict when it comes to phones, which I'm glad about - if they are seen they are confiscated.

Also, how does a school safeguard the children who they've given a medical pass to? From the sounds of things, they are knowingly allowing them into an unsafe environment.

Newbabynewhouse - I was referring to this part of your post, which contained three things I would stand by saying are ridiculous!
Adults go when they need to so should a 14 year old!... disruptive my arse! Its probably a power thing they feel they have to enforce cos why the hell not... Adults don't go when they need to in schools. It is incredibly disruptive. We don't make up rules for shits and giggles.

During an ordinary break there are a huge number of kids and staff around supervising. I see the kids go in and come out. It’s not an environment conducive to secretive activities. I won’t tell you how many take their food in with them though!

Toilet passes are few and when the pupil leaves they are flagged on our monitoring system so duty staff are keeping an eye out. If slow to return they will then be flagged as missing.

In reality there are few medical passes and very few problems. The kids tend to manage just fine. Unless it’s a supply teacher who doesn’t know the ropes.

I would be livid. That's appauling. I would be taking this straight to the headmaster.
As an aside - have you tried period pants? My daughter goes to school in one of these with a pad if she is heavy and it gives her reassurance from leaks.

One of my twin dd12 had a panic attack in class the other day. She was on her period, she did go to the toilet at break to clean up and then needed to go again during the lesson after break because her cramps were really bad and she needed to clean up and she was worried she was going to leak. She can't wear tampons as she is twelve... self-explanatory. She put her hand up to ask to go to the toilet and her (male) teacher didn't let her. She waited, realised she was going to leak and asked to go again but wasn't allowed. She then had a panic attack because she of course didn't want to say to her male teacher and her entire class that she was on her period and she really needed to use the toilet. I'm mystified as to why she wasn't allowed. She shouldn't have to go through the humiliation of telling her male teacher something private and personal like that she's on her period (I believe it should be more acceptable to talk about periods in public but the fact remains that it isn't), and also have to say it in class in front of everyone. She would have got bullied for this and she knew it. What else could she have done? Nothing. Yes, maybe there is a problem with lots of people using the toilet during class to not even go to the toilet, but surely this is a bigger problem! At least let girls always go to the toilet. They shouldn't have to be made to say publicly that they need to go to the toilet because of their period before they're allowed - they shouldn't have to say it to their teachers either!

I can see both sides. As a teacher kids going to the toilet was so disruptive. As soon as you let one go, they all start. At home children only go to the toilet when they need to so parents think that's how they behave at school. But it really isn't.
However, I also used to invigilate exams. As soon as they had finished the paper, they'd get bored and wanted go which was very disturbing to those still working. But at the same time, I could see that just sitting there would give you time to think and I would definitely talk myself into being desperate. Also all of us have had that feeling we've flooded, even when we haven't, so I do have sympathies.
No teacher wants to be a meanie and see kids uncomfortable so if a rule has been made, it's for good historical reason.
It does make me smile, though, how many parents on here apparently go storming to school to give teachers a piece of their mind and the teachers just crumble under the weight of the parents arguments. Lol.

Might I also add, my daughter has no medical issue like endometriosis and just has heavy periods. You can't get a medical pass for that. She is 12 so can't use tampons for obvious reasons, and at the start of a period when it's heavy pads sometimes have to be changed every hour, or girls just need to clean up even if they aren't going to leak since it's really uncomfortable to be on a heavy period with only a pad. She should be allowed to go to the toilet.

The problems that cause schools to take these measures are real. Daily vandalisation of the toilets is not sustainable. Girls have been sexually assaulted in the toilets. And lots of kids will just go in there are fool around with their phones, which has made the whole problem a lot worse.

It's nice to say let the good kids go, but not that workable. If you let one student go it's difficult to justify not letting another. After all, the problem kids have to use the toilets and have periods too.

That being said, I don't see how just locking them or not letting anyone go is workable either. Schools need to look at solutions like longer breaks if there isn't enough time for kids to get in between classes, or dedicated bathroom monitors, which of course would have to be funded.

For the OP, I'd look seriously into managing her periods if she's prone to flooding. There is a learning curve but it might be possible to shorten it with some help. Period panties along with tampons or even pads might be one good option. As well as using a good charting app and learning to notice signs that her period will start soon so she can go prepared - that might take some time but is well worth getting started now..