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Dependent Drinkers and Alcoholics (recovering or active) Support Thread II?

1000 replies

kokeshi · 28/11/2007 12:14

Welcome to the thread, the purpose of this is to give anyone, who is having any trouble with their drinking, to come and post about it honestly and without judgement.

There are many of us that use the thread for support and encouragement: some in recovery, others just needing a place to share about their worries. It's been going on in one form of another for a while now and has helped many people.

Everybody's welcome, no matter what stage your drinking is at.

Jump right in, the water's fine

OP posts:
justwaterformethanks · 05/02/2008 17:19

Hi everyone ,well I had a bottle of wine on friday when we had friends over ,they brought another bottle with them and i drank that over saturday and sunday night ,then last night i had nothing ,felt fed up with myself for having the bottle they had left ,even though i spread it over 2 nights ,so im up for the 40 days and 40nights challenge too ,especially given there are no nights out/in planned for the next month. I also went ot my first smoking cessation session today and aim to start as a non smoker as of thursday ( fingers crossed !) . Unhappy , i know I dont really know you but i worry about you so im sending you BIG HUGS

ornamentalhaggis · 05/02/2008 17:56

Hi folks,

great to see the thread active. Unhappy, the best judge of anyone's drinking is themselves and the fact that you're posting on this thread and opening up about it, already proves that alarm bells are ringing for you. Quite rightly so I would think: the secretive drinking, shame and sneaking about are classic behaviours exhibited by folk with drink problems.

The artificial justifications we put on our drinking that separate us in our minds from that image of the down and out alkie are just that. Those guys lying in the gutter didn't get there magically, it was for most of them a long slow descent into it, and most of us, who've gone further down the line have made similar justifications about our drinking in the past.

For me personallly, and through a number of years experience of working with problem drinkers, it's unlikely that anyone at this level of drinking can return to 'normal'...whatever that is. The relationship you have with booze is unhealthy, whether it be emotional dependence, physical dependence or both. The most realistic goal for us is to try to get help and support, sort out the underlying problems, give up drink, and find better ways of coping. That's not good news for any of us who see it as a lifeline I know.

I would always say to someone who doesn't think they're a problem drinker/alcohol dependent/alcoholic is to just stop and see how long it lasts for. I would wager sooner or later that person will be back to drinking again and wondering what went wrong. There's no mystery in this for me anymore, but at one point I just couldn't see that I could live without alcohol. It has taken a huge effort, and for me that means having ongoing support in the form of AA. Other people do it differently. They go to rehab, alcohol counselling or just make huge changes in their lives and thinking.

At the end of the day, alcohol is a poison, if we keep drinking it, we'll get ill. On levels like we are drinking on here, and the fact that we are women, statistically means our bodies will start failing us quicker than men. If you're a mother with children, it's not something we can afford to gamble with I don't think.

Sometimes it's good to just be realistic.

ornamentalhaggis · 05/02/2008 18:45

Hi again, teasle asked me about something I posted earlier on the thread, about permanent changes in the brain of an alcohol dependent person. This is an article which goes into the science behind it, it's a bit technical but I found it encompasses many things I've posted before:

------

Addiction: what is it?

A famous public speaker once said "An addiction is a pathological relationship with a mood-altering activity with life-damaging consequences." That is a pretty good description of the biopsychosocial disorder, substance dependence.

Addictions are common disorders. Not everyone is susceptible to them. Nobody intentionally becomes addicted. The greatest problem with this chronic, progressive, and sometimes fatal disease is that it tells you you haven't got it. It's called "denial," "projection," "rationalization," or "intellectualization."
Neurobiology of addictions

Addiction is a disorder or disease of the brain. The parts of the brain responsible for reward, pleasure, and reinforcement simply don't work well enough in the addicted person. This condition is thought to be either genetically acquired or due to environmental stressors combined with prolonged or excessive ingestion of the addictive substance. Addiction-prone people are said to lack "hedonic tone." This means they spend more time feeling bad and are more likely to experience negative emotions such as dysphoria, anxiety, and feelings of depression. They are unable to comfort or soothe themselves. They discover, usually in their teens, that certain substances, such as alcohol, marijuana, stimulants, sedatives, narcotic analgesics, and nicotine make them feel better, even normal for a while. The problem is that over time the brain adapts, a process called "neuroadaptation," which changes the structure, function, and chemistry of the brain. And so tolerance develops: it takes more drug to get the same effect. It becomes nearly impossible to get high. When they try to stop they feel much more dysphoria, anxiety, or depression. Some of this neuroadaptation is reversible, but with prolonged, high-dose use of certain drugs, some of it may be permanent.

The pathology responsible for predisposition addiction is located in the mesolimbic portion of the central nervous system, however, like other complex chronic progressive illnesses, there are components of addictive disorders that involve psychological and social domains. Environmental exposure to the drug, cultural norms about use of the drug, emotional trauma, stressors, psychological makeup, and psychiatric problems can all serve as contributing risk factors, along with genetics, probably the greatest risk factor.

As the disorder progresses, psychological and psychiatric problems manifest and interpersonal problems worsen. So, although the biomedical disorder is located in the brain, substance dependence is biopsychosocial and spiritual in its cause and its manifestations. In order to successfully treat addictions, the most effective approach should incorporate biological, psychological, and social strategies and changes.
Author: Ray Baker, MD

Janni · 05/02/2008 18:59

Sorry - not responding to those before me, will read the thread later. Just need to acknowledge that I am gagging for a glass of wine..Luckily we don't have any here and I WILL resist going to the shop. I'm going to make a cup of tea now and get the kids sorted.

teasle · 05/02/2008 19:08

Thanks ornamental haggis for posting that
(Waves back to BM)

I have just finished making loads of pancakes for all the kids and am going to have MY tea now.

Anyone around 9ish? Will check in to see if anyone is around

Janni · 05/02/2008 19:58

Back again, feel stronger now, youngest child in bed. Always find early evening with three kids very trying. Luckily DH came home at a reasonable time and helped. Will not drink tonight.

Unhappy - you sound like you have a lot of self-awareness, which I'm sure is a really important first step.

Good luck all for this evening xx

LardyMardyDaisy · 05/02/2008 20:11

OrnaHaggis (I'm not shortening it to Hag, as I'm sure your not ), your posts are always very insightful and informative.

I've failed again this evening ( and at myself); the first glass of wine has slipped down in, oh, about 5 minutes flat . Thankfully there's only half a bottle left over from last night so I can't do too much damage, but there is some bailey's in the drinks cabinet. I will not, under any circumstances, drink DHs malt whisky, or it would be the divorce courts for me.

DH and I had long chat about my drinking at the weekend, and he is sad that he is away as I am much more in control when he is here. He is looking for a job closer to home at the minute and has a couple of interviews lined up, so fingers crossed. He is so very supportive of me; which is why I feel so much worse when I can't not have a drink, as i feel that letting him down is far more hineous than letting myself down.

Off to watch a bit of TV.

see y'all tomorrow

unhappy · 05/02/2008 21:07

Hiya posting tonight and deleting my history to cover my tracks I really believe my dp has no idea about my drinking - he would go mad if he did - self aware Janni - I dont know about that I feel right now like everything I do is an act ie. I act happy when dp around so as not go cause any aggro I act OK at work so people dont talk and I dont talk to my closest friend anymore so she doesnt really know whats going on in my life and to be honest she doesnt really care or she would pick up the phone and ask why I havent bothered with her for months!! Oh dear sound a bit like a victim here dont I didnt mean to - anyway going for the lent thing - Ornamanental you are so right about booze being poison - read Allen Carr's book when I gave up for 6 weeks last week and I actually used to look at people and think "god you are just drinking poison" and then of course I fell of that self righteous wagon and back into the wine VAT - the rest is history - ie. other woman being pregnang still cant quite get over how dp could be so stupid - I still love him and dont want to lose my family life which is why I wont walk away - I know some people just dont get that but life as I said earlier is not black/white you just have to do what you have to do sometimes - sarf london life eh!!! I am going to sleep now looking forward to my sobriety - lets hope I can post under a different name soon xxxx good luck all tonight - its a lonely existence evenings for many

teasle · 05/02/2008 21:26

Unhappy, I really hope you are able to sort through things, you sound in so much pain(or that may be just my interpretation).
I couldn't cope with things at certain times of my life and drank to 'not-think', to get to a place where I was so pissed that I really just didn't care..but those things still stay there, they have to be worked through at some point if we are to get well, or to get peace for ourselves. Also, I had to start being honest , first with myself and then others.

Someone said to me 'if nothing changes, nothing changes'. I had to start making changes, and I had to start thinking, facing things- that meant ultimately for me, I had to first get sober.

One thing that I have found is that progress and change is hard work and takes time to both implement and take effect. I know I am stating the bleedin' obvious with that, but I am starting to see so many changes and benefits in my own life. Not easy though, but worth it.

I am meeting with my sponsor tomorrow, and I have loads to talk to her about. I hope I have made some sort of sense, but I fear it just comes out as rambling nonsense.
Hope everyone is having a good evening.

LardyMardyDaisy · 05/02/2008 21:34

unhappy, sorry for asking stupid questions earlier ; serves me right for skim reading and not remembering who said what.

Don't know what else to say other than {{{{{{hugs}}}}}}.

Keep posting and we'll see if we can get through to Easter together , albeit taking it one day at a time

ornamentalhaggis · 05/02/2008 21:38

Great post teasle and wise words. I've been given the use of the reference library at the alcohol unit so I'm in my element at the moment - or is it Pandora's box? Fascinating stuff, all they know about addiction and the great thing is that they're all aligning with each other now. AA is not seen as such a last-chance saloon or end of the road treatment now for bottom end drunks, rather a robust and common-sense path for those who have gone through initial detox and rehab treatment. It just needs society to catch up and 'get real' about the stigma of AA and alcoholism. It's not shameful to admit you have problems, it takes a lot of courage and strength to change. The ones who are cowards are those judging other's drinking...'I'm not as bad as her/him'. It's sad.

There an ancient CHinese proverb:

The man takes a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes the man...

Is anyone watching Horizon right now? Interesting. Cost of alcohol up to £1.7 billion on the economy and it's getting steadily worse.

teasle · 05/02/2008 21:46

Hi mentalhaggis!

Bet you'll hardly see daylight if you've been given anoppurtunity like that- be good for us to reap some of your rewards though!

The programme of AA IS common sense really though isn't it? Any recovery programme contains all those elements. You do have to be ready for it though- no point in just expecting to coast through, talking and thinking self grandiose bollocks. There are some very down to earth Geordies in AA here, you can't really get away with talking the talk, but not doing the work.

Do you think most stigma from AA is down to misunderstandings?
Such as when people think its religious, which I know I did, when someone first mentioned it to me.

justwaterformethanks · 05/02/2008 21:58

I dont need to watch horizon, i see it every day at work ,Ive had one ALD lady die of a massive GI bleed , Ive got another two regulars in , i just find it all so sad ,neither are very old ,one was found by her daughter fitting due to alcohol withdrawl ,the other had a Gi bleed (luckily only minor) and is drinking while on the ward . I sometimes question whether Im in the right job , I empathise too strongly and it effects the rest of my life ,I cant switch off , I think i need to move into a different area

teasle · 05/02/2008 22:03

Hi JW- what do you fancy changing to?

teasle · 05/02/2008 22:07

Am off to bed anyway now. Night all x

ornamentalhaggis · 05/02/2008 22:09

at mentalhaggis! I think it's a combination of a lot of things teasle...stupid interpretations on American TV programmes; the denial of admitting you're 'that bad' - ref the word 'alcoholic' (folk seem to think it's the worst insult); societal prejudice and stereotypes; and quite possible the number of folk who go reluctantly' once and denounce it as a religious cult or that they're too good for it or just plain not ready. The testimony to how well it works are the hundreds of thousands of (sane, non-brain-washed) folks who are quietly living happy, sober and productive lives.

The programme is just total common sense. It's just comes down to admitting that your way of doing things doesn't work, deciding to open yourself up to other suggestions, look at yourself, make right the wrongs and be willing to do this on a daily basis for as long as you want to remain happy and well. Not rocket science really

Daisy, will you be wearing your sack cloth and ashes tomorrow ?

Unhappy, please come back soon, it;s so sad that you're living in this shame the whole time. You deserve to be just as happy as anyone else.

ornamentalhaggis · 05/02/2008 22:11

Scary JWFMT, doesn't that put you off when you see the consequences of drinking every day? I think I'd find it difficult too.

BrassicMonkey · 05/02/2008 23:06

@ alcoholic being the worst insult! I was a bit pissed off with my BF tonight. I told her at the weekend about me getting in touch with my Dsis and us going to AA meetings together. She called back tonight to make sure she hadn't dreamt it . She said "I suppose it comes down to how strong you are, some people just cope don't they" .

I know she wasn't being deliberately unkind, but it just illustrates how warped the perception of alcoholism is. That's the same bullshit that keeps suffering alcoholics from seeking treatment. I don't think I'm mentally weak for being an alcoholic. In fact I feel quite strong because I've faced up to it. I think if I hadn't kidded myself that I was emotionally strong in the first place, I wouldn't have had to deal with so many problems through my life. I don't think there's any shame in asking for help or admitting that you can't do something.

Ornamentalhaggis @ the reference library = kid in sweet shop

unhappy · 06/02/2008 11:46

Morning everybody - feeling dog rough today but hey today is a new day and I feel quite strongly about making last night my last night of secret drinking - I want to feel better about myself and like posted above things cant really change unless you make changes - I feel I have a lot of changing to do with the way that I deal with things and hopefully trying very hard to not drink so much will help in all areas of my life.

Lardymardy thanks for the hugs - really need them right now thank god ds still little and wants to hug me hopefully I will be in a better place soon - keep up the good work all that manage to cut down/stop etc etc. Check in later

Janni · 06/02/2008 15:19

Quick post from me - will read all before later...Just need to say that if there were wine in the fridge, I'd be having some. DD was whingeing hugely after toddler group, has woken up in the same mood, I know I should comfort her and be supportive, but all I can think of is 'I have SO had enough'. I will make sure I don't keep alcohol in the house - it's really interesting being on this thread as it's making me think about it. You have to face your triggers and find other ways to deal with them - I know this from having had an eating disorder.

justwaterformethanks · 06/02/2008 15:41

teasle/ornhag , I think working where i do made my drinking worse in many ways ,when i was in denial that i had a problem with drink because i could do the 'well im nowhere near as bad as that' b*llocks ! Id really like to move into sexual health /family planning ( did I mention my fascination with pus!!!) but have never got my arse into gear to do anything about it ,that should be my goal for this year ,find out about and actually do a course in the area im interested in .
Changing subject completely ,do you think women feel worse about being classed as an alcoholic than men ? Because women are seen as the nurturers / copers in life and therefore have more guilt when they feel they havent ? does that make any sense ?

ornamentalhaggis · 06/02/2008 17:41

Hi folks,

Janni, many people I know who are recovering alcoholics are dual addicted: eg. have history of Eating disorders, drug abuse (OTC and illicit), co-dependency, or even something as seemingly 'innocuous' like nicotine. All addictive and compulsive behaviours have similarities in presentation thus treatment, and if you've recovered or are dealing with one, there's a good chance you can employ these strategies to deal with problem drinking.

JWFMT, I get what you mean about the denial aspect, one of my AA mates is a psychiatrist who would regularly lecture her patients that she couldn't help them until they stopped drinking...than as soon as she finished work, she'd be drinking vodka in a diet coke bottle as she was driving her car home . SHe laughs at herself now, but this is the insanity of problem drinking/alcoholism, we just can't see past what we choose to believe about ourselves.

ornamentalhaggis · 06/02/2008 17:57

Souvenir, how did you get on with the results of your CT scan?

Where are our other 'regulars'? Come and say hi!

teasle · 06/02/2008 20:07

I'll be around this evening.

I have met with my sponsor this afternoon. Talked loads, but my head is a bit mashed with it all. Life is sometimes overwhelming right now, but in a good way?

Hows everyone else?

BrassicMonkey · 06/02/2008 20:43

I haven't done much today as DS and I have been unwell with colds. I'm having a few hours to myself now and playing with my new phone. I didn't realise that it was a PDA when I ordered it and I'm going to feel a bit of a ponce when I have to get my styllus out in public. It's an excellent self-indulgent toy though

Hi teasle. Sorry to hear you're feeling a bit overwhelmed. Have you fallen into a pattern with AA stuff now - a set amount of meetings each week and meet-ups with your sponsor etc? Is it the stuff you're working through with her that's making you feel like this, or just life?

How is everyone else?

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