MMR

[Mog]

I know this has been covered before but it was before my time on mumsnet. At the risk of boring people, yes or no to the MMR jab?

my surgery were never very sympathetic towards making the decision, I must have received four or five appointment cards through the door and after the first couple of calls to the surgery explaining myself and that I didnt want to have the triple vaccine they took a bit of a dislike to me, perhaps it was my imagination.

I read through as much literature as I possibly could and decided for the single vaccine. The single vaccine that my son had was egg free, which apart from the obvious was another concern for me as he is so allergic to egg. We ended up travelling to London to get it done.

I think whatever the decision (single or triple) each parent should be able to decide what is best for 'their' child, and I think its terrible that parents whatever the circumstances feel pressured in this way to have the MMR when the single jabs are not freely available.
(purely my view, not intending to offend anyone or any decisions.)

My (vaccinated) just recently had rubella. No real symptoms, just a rash, and otherwise perfectly well in himself. Rubella is not a dangerous disease - unless it is caught during pregnancy.

Most of the diseases we vaccinate against are very mild in healthy children, and you can protect them further by using complimentary therapies to boost their imune systems. The more we vaccinate against(as with use of antibiotics) the more diseases will appear in nastier, more dangerous forms.

I wonder how many people who are pro-vaxxing (other than those who are making money from it, obviously) have actually researched the situation, and how many are just believing government propoganda.

With my first child I went along with it (against my better judgement) becasuse I just didn't have the information available to make an informed (ie, unbiased by what the hv thrusts at you) choice. With my second, having really researched the issues, and read information from both sides of the argument, I decided that my children wouldn't have any vaccines ever again.

Remember drug companies have an ulterier motive (money) at heart rather than the best interests of our children.

BTW Alley22, I think I'm right in saying it's not your surgery who send the cards, but the health authority. I told my hv, all geared up expecting an argument, and she said "Ok". That's all, no argument. I was shocked! She told me that I would recieve a couple more cards before they got the message that I wasn't coming, but just to cancel the appointment and ignore the cards.

Angelmouse,

I agree with you on the smallpox death rate, but the individuals who do not die still get the disease. Only then do they have natural immunity. Or Did I miss read you, and the point that you were making was that the individuals who do not die, get the natural immunity.

And as an older mother who had the misfortune to have both measles, mumps and rubella as a child I can confirm that they were horrible. I was very ill for 3 weeks with measles, which has left me with impared vision. Prior to the introduction of MMR mumps was the main cause of viral meningitis. Measles has already killed children in Northern Irland, who were well fed,(I assume) with all the range of medical intervention that a developed country can give.

I am pro-vaccination and have researched it in detail from both sides of the argument. There is so much evidence on both sides but the anti-vaccination evidence that I found was very anecdotal and appeared to have very little scientific basis (from someone who is scientifically trained). My husband is a doctor and looked into it from a medical point of view - his practice have just signed up to a new scheme in Scotland where you don't get paid per vaccine, but he is still advising patients to have the vaccinations.
I don't like the implication that everyone who vaccinates their child is just going along with the 'government propaganda' - I am intelligent and able to come to that decsion for myself, and I have. My children have had and will have all the vaccinations available to them.
For those of you who have not vaccinated your children, can I ask you this - if you were travelling to a developing country and were advised to be vaccinated against typhoid, yellow fever, japanese encephalitis, to take malaria tablets, would you do it for yourself and your children, or would you risk catching these diseases? I speak as someone who wishes there was a vaccine for amoebic dysentry!!! (still suffering 10 years on!!)

I'm not going to give the MMR to my ds, but I do think the views of those who ARE going to give it are perfectly valid and I'm sure they are just as independent-minded and do as much thinking as the anti-MMRers. I certainly don't think it is a case of no-MMR = clever while pro-MMR = dumb. I just think that people look at the evidence and test their gut reaction and come up with different answers.

It seems more than a little strange to me that people can dismiss the massive decline in smallpox, diptheria. polio etc etc since the introduction of vaccinations as merely a coincidence but the apparent rise in autism since the introduction of MMR is not coincidence but cause and effect. The statistical relationship between the decline in incidences of illness and vaccinations is vastly more compelling than the relationship between MMR and autism.

Agree Croppy.

I so wish that the media and everybody putting out information on this subject would do so in a calm way, just laying out the facts. I think there is a lot of scaremongering (not to belittle any parents views here - just the way they are portrayed sometimes in the press), and very little hard evidence. I would love some impartial person to say "These are the risks of measles, mumps, rubella etc. This is the evidence for doubting MMR". Rather than "Mother's heartbreak at MMR autism." It is heartbreaking if you have an autistic child, but surely it is better to put forward rational arguments. If, as the evidence suggests, the MMR is NOT to blame, then the real cause is not being searched out. And if it is, then people like me need to be convinced by hard facts.

angelmouse - so the death rate for Smallpox was ONLY 33% hey?! No offence, but if you told me that I had a 1 in 3 chance of winning the lottery, I would think those amazingly good odds. Plus, most of those who had the disease and acquired the immunity were scarred for life. Polio is another example - people were disabled as a result of the disease, but so what...they had immunity right?

Sorry to be so forthright. As I have already said, I took a long time considering the pros and cons to give ds the MMR jab. I was really anti it at one point, but spoke to my gp, who gave me a balanced and honest view. He did not try to get me to have it, but merely gave me some facts.

I am a firm believer that medical intervention in these matters is GENERALLY a good thing. How far do you take leaving things to nature? Do you not believe in blood transfusions, kidney donation, operations etc etc? Yes, the world would eventually evolve into a race of tough bodied humans, but that would take millions if years. In the mean time, I will make the most of all opportunities to protect my child from disease.

Haven't read the whole thread but would like to add my own quick view. My dd has just had the MMR at the age of 3. I went through an anti vaccination period and was scared to death about autism at one point but over time and after many confused discussions with my husband and my homeopath, friends etc. Both dh and I made our decision based on the fact that we knew no-one directly who had suffered ill effects from the MMR vaccine, however, we knew at least 6 people directly who had suffered from the measles or Mumps(either been hospitalised, chest, hearing or sight problems) and that made up our minds.

I had to take plenty of rescue remedy before hand and gave my dd loads!! She screamed like a banshee and it was heart rending to hear and I hated myself and was quite upset for a while afterwards but three weeks down the line she has had no signs of the vaccine at all not even a rash or temperature. And she dicusses the hole in her arm quite calmly now! I will ask to have her immunity tested before agreeing to the booster though. I hope this helps other parents who are teetering on a decision.

I forgot to add that my homeopath gave me two remedies for dd to take prior to and after the vaccine to help her body cope. Worth chatting to a homeopath about this if you decide to go down the MMR/vaccination route.

Does anyone know a date for the introduction of mercury free vaccines. My dd is due to receive MMR jag tomorrow?

The link below contains fully referenced information and statistical data including graphs demonstrating how many illnesses declined before vaccinations were introduced and also how in many cases these illnesses increased after the vaccines were introduced:

www.vegan.swinternet.co.uk/articles/health/vaccination.html

It wasn't that long ago that I thought that the anti-vax lobby were full of radical hype I was sceptical when I started searching out information but what I read was a shocking revelation to me. Putting to one side the discussions about whether vaccines work, prevent epidemics, saves lives etc. can anyone reassure me that it is healthy to inject into my young baby substances such as formaldehyde, mercury, cells from aborted fetuses to name just 3. Would any baby normally be exposed to 3 diseases at the same time? If they were exposed to just one it would be via a normal route, vaccinations put a mutated form of the illness in through an abnormal route bypassing the bodies natural defences and leaving the immune system unprepared for the attack. I believe that each vaccine does a bit more damage. My baby will remain unvaccinated.

I would say "radical hype" was about right.

Here is another fully referrenced website |(nothing to do with vaccination but it makes a good point)which is at least as compelling as the anti vaccination websites

www.dhmo.org/

Jasper that is so far off. Have you got any reason to back up such offensive comments?

Far off what?
Far off what you personally believe?
What exactly was offensive?
Was it the use of the term radical hype?
I was quoting another contributor ( who unlike me had moved on from considering the anti vax lobby in this way)

Absolutely no offence intended (It's not my style)

Did you check out the website?

Jenny2998, I was wondering what your evidence was that "drug companies have an ulterior motive (money) at heart rather than the best interests of our children."
My first job at university was working for a drug company that was developing a vaccine for Hepatitis C which is a major killer in the 3rd world. In the 2 summers that I worked for the company I did both laboratory and library research. Every person that I interacted with was diligent, hardworking, honest and interested in finding a safe effective way to save lives. All our work was carefully researched and tested over and over again from many angles. Many of the people I worked with were parents and none of them ever gave me the impression that they were simply inventing substances that were harmful purely to make money out of it. And I find your suggestion that we were, offensive. It is your perogative to choose to not vaccinate your child, but please don't imply that I am somehow stupid or immoral for choosing to vaccinate mine.

Hi Chinchilla,

The original message implied that if you got smallpox, you died. I was simply making the point that this isn't the case. And also making the point that anyone who had it and survived would have natural immunity.

You cite polio as another example. I know many people who have had polio and have not been disabled. My own mother had polio in 1928 and was not expected to walk again but she did. I would comment that polio is a gut bug which is a lot more common than people think. It causes problems, statistically, in one in ten cases, and of these another one in ten will be paralysed. Some permanently, some temporarily. But Guillaine Barré Syndrome is potentially worse. It, too, is a gut bug, but whereas polio affected either limbs or lungs, causing necrosis of neurological cells, GBS can affect anywhere in the body. And it is increasing in incidence. Any epidemiological studies will back this up.

There will always be diseases that will disable and kill - it's part of the order of things. If there weren't, the world would collapse from over-population. But I can personally see no sense whatsoever in poisoning my child with toxins like formaldehyde, aluminium sulphate, and mercury, along with 18 doses of antigens for six different illnesses which she would never be exposed to in one fell swoop, nor in the unnatural way in which vaccines do stimulate the immune system.

We have natural defence systems - mucous membranes, skin, fevers, inflammatory responses - these protect the body in a natural way to resist illness/infection. By vaccinating, you bypass these systems and inject toxins and pathogens straight into the bloodstream. It doesn't give the body a chance not to be damaged to a lesser or greater degree.

Please also bear in mind that when my generation was vaccinated, and I'm sorry to say that I received two vaccines, it wasn't done until we were two years old. Now they want to start vaccinating from birth. The poor babies are hardly out of the womb, and I don't think it will be long before they find a way to do it so that they're coming out vaccinated! In the US, they already stick them with Hep B at birth.

When is this insanity going to end? No wonder so many children have eczema, asthma, hayfever, diabetes, food allergies, IBS, and ADD/ADHD. My heart breaks for them.

Hi HMB,

I didn't perhaps make it clear what I meant - I apologise. I meant that anyone who had smallpox and survived would have natural immunity.

I am so sorry that you had a bad time with measles, mumps and rubella. I don't remember having rubella although I appear to have antibodies, mumps was comparatively uneventful (at 5) and measles (at 3) lasted three weeks for me too. I spent it in bed with the curtains pulled. Because measles (more than most viruses) quickly depletes vitamin A, it is important to protect the eyes. But I am very sorry that it left you with impaired vision. Generally speaking, supplementing with large doses of vitamins C and A will protect a child against damage from measles. Most first world children receive adequate quantities of food, but many will get food that is nutritionally sub-standard. Vitamin A is the key to protection from measles.

But I would still say that children at risk from the wild strain of measles are those most likely to suffer noticeable vaccine damage.

BWs,

AM

Angelmouse,

As a child, I was fed with liver on a weekly basis, so I assume that my vitamin levels were just fine. And I also spent the 3 weeks in a drakened room, and guess what, I still have impared vision. I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that my injury was somehow the fault of my mother, rather than the bad fortune of having an illness.

Just out of interest, you seem to think that having immunisations prevents us fighting off other ilnesses. If that is the case how do you explain the infuenza pandemic after WW1. The population was largly free of immunisation, but millions got the illness, and millions died.

It is true that the levels of dome diseases were falling due to public health improvements, but it was immunisation that got rid of the killers like small pox, polio and diptheria(etc etc etc).

You didn't answer the comment about the children who die in the developed world for measels? Or do you think that it was their parents to blame, by not giving them enough vitamin A? No offence ment, but this illness is a potential killer. Even in the best fed and cared for children.

Angle Mouse,

What is the incidence of G-B syndrome? As far as I can remember this is a very rare condition. I can't argue with your statement that cases are rising,( I haven't read the epidemiological studies that you mention) but I would be interested to know to what level. If there has been a 100% rise in cases, this will still not make it the public health threat that polio was, prior to immunisation. What are the current levels of G-B?

I am thankful that due to the 'insanity' of vaccinating out children they are no longer at risk of diseases like polio, smallpox and diptheria (and all the rest), that killed, maimed and disabled on a regular basis. Yes, in the west, and yes in well fed and cared for children. My Father was born in 1925. He was one of 6, but only 3 lived to adulthood. The others died of diptheria. I'll take the 'insanity' thanks.

Angelmouse, my heart breaks for the all the children that you have condemned to illness and death in order to make sure the world doesn't "collapse from over-population." There is no credible evidence that the world population is not self-sustainable.
I am also a little concerned about the pseudo scientific jargon that you have been quoting ("We have natural defence systems....By vaccinating, you bypass these systems and inject toxins and pathogens straight into the bloodstream....It doesn't give the body a chance not to be damaged to a lesser or greater degree."
None of this seems to fit in with accepted scientific methodology and understanding of how our bodies and nature works. Perhaps rather than telling everyone else to go back and do some research, you should doublecheck your sources and reread the information you have gathered.

I'm sorry that you have chosen not to vaccinate your children, but that is your choice. However, as JayTree pointed out there is a social responsibility to vaccination that goes beyond just your own children... I certainly won't be letting my children anywhere near any unvaccinated children until they are old enough to be vaccinatd themselves. I wouldn't dream of risking their lives, sight, limbs, well being etc. by contradicting decades of scientific research that highly recommends vaccination.

Very worried about my dd getting the MMR later today. One of my main concerns is mercury in the vaccine. Can anyone help by letting me know if mercury is stil used or if there is a date when it was stopped ?
I've already posted this question but as you can imagine I'm nervous about today.

Very worried about my dd getting the MMR later today. One of my main concerns is mercury in the vaccine. Can anyone help by letting me know if mercury is stil used or if there is a date when it was stopped ?
I've already posted this question but as you can imagine I'm nervous about today.