No more thimerosil

[hoxtonchick]

look

That's shocking, Jimjams - have you got any links to that 1930's paper?

the more I discover about this issue the more appalled I am at the lengths people in the establishment will go to to protect their financial interests, which is as far as I am concerned what lies at the root of all of this. These people peddling lies and deliberately exposing our children to risks are amoral.I credit a lot of my knowledge ( which is pretty limited compared to some people) to mumsnet.If I have another child I think I'd rather take my chances with no vaccinations at all to be honest.And that is the fault of the health authority and the government's intransigent party line.

Quite, Donnie.
I am, of course, spitting feathers at all of this and want to post this thread to Tony Blair, India Knight (see her fascile comment about vaccinations in the ST this week), and the BBC.

Incidentally, it would be nice to see an acknowledgement from those of you who were calling Jimjams, Twigglett, me, et al last year when we had a thread running on this very subject. What was it you were calling us - paranoid? Worse? It would be interesting to resurrect that thread, n'est pas?

Jimjams, thinking of you and my Bp is stratospheric.

I have sympathies to the herd immunity argument; but equally have a great deal of sympathy to those whose children are adversely affected by vaccines. Is there any way to screen children to determine which children ought not to be vaccinated due to likelihood of adverse effects other than by taking a very thorough family history of illness?

Two interesting links for anyone interested in this subject, don't think they've been posted before but apologies if they have:
wakefieldcomments
scotsmanarticle

Wow, everything I wanted to say myself.
Thanks Davros, I thnk Doctor Who was wrong about you.

That bastard Who! Don't mention him to me grrrr

This is all so confusing....I feel likethe more I read about vaccines the less I know!!

Its hard to amke up your mind when you have to rely on other people's evidence.

It seems to me that for every piece of research there's another one saying exactly the opposite, then there's the whole question of how reliable each piece of research is.

I just don't know what I'm going to do with dd2, in my mind every option available is equally risky, to vaccinate, not to, to delay, to go private..........This is just too much for my pregnant barin...

Our beloved NHS are still determined to immunise children even when they KNOW that the child in question has had a bad reaction to the stuff before. Ds1 had it noted on his hospital records, his GP records and also his child health record that he should NOT have the pertussis injection ever again. When I told the HV last week and again this week that I was not going to allow him to have the DTP she thought I was mad. When someone finally found some of the last remaining DT and said that ds1 could have it, I turned up at the clinic today to find the HV ready to give him DTP and a 3rd dose of MMR (he'd been given MMR only a week ago FFS!).

There is no way that they'll bother to test to see which children shouldn't be immunised when they can't even be bothered to read a child's medical records before injecting something that will cause him to stop breathing.

Just thought I'd throw this one in the pan.. It's strange how the government chose to use DTaPHibIPV use in Canada as their 'proof' it's safe when WHO clearly states its already in use in Ireland, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Italy, Iceland, and France (says DTwPHIBIPV). Why didn't they choose several of our neighbours across the pond? (who info here )

I agree webmum, it is very hard. All you can do is research as much as possible, discuss, and use your own common sense. My almost 3 year old had the hib/tet/diptheria/polio in the usual way as a baby and then immediately developed terrible eczema which ruined her life and ours for 6 months ( long story, too depressing).Possibly it was a coincidence - of course we were reliably told there was 'no scientific evidence' to support our suspicions that the vaccination had somehow triggered /been a catalyst for the onset of the eczema.But of course we would be told that wouldn't we ? after all what do we know ? we are only the parents. Later on we opted for single measles, mumps and rubella. Had I known about the mercury content of those early vaccinations I would never have allowed her to have them, but of course I didn't know.Luckily I'm a bit more clued up now,and I feel like Droile, I am so angry about the whole business. If we do have another child there is no way I would allow him/her to have FIVE vaccines in one go. I would rather take my chances or else source and pay for single ones.They are already for sale - I've seen the internet ads myself.Babies eh? great way to make a fast buck.Which brings me back to my last posting, where I made the point that IMO all of this has corporate greed at its filthy corrupt heart. ( sorry, steam already coming out of my ears!)
So maybe , if you are lucky enough to be able to afford it, as we were, you could pay for single vaccines.But isn't it awful that ,as with so much in this world, there's one rule for those with the money, and one for those without. Good luck in making this very tough decision.Sorry to rant!

Donnie I'm shocked you said that, DS eczema started with the first DTP shot, with the second he got covered in flares from head to toe in less than 48hrs, but I always had the doubt if it was just a coincidence, the doctor said that probably the inyection had scared him off which caused the flares (stupid answer I know but DS didn't cry with the injections).

The only thing I know was that the reactions were escalating with each booster peaking at the Hib. Got MMRSepVax and so far no problem with any single dose. However, I need to confess that I got the sep vax not because I considered them totally safe but because I knew that if he had abad reaction they will pay more attention otherwise I would be dismissed again with the line "all vacines provided by the NHS are perfectly safe".

I know people are complaining about giving five vaccines in one go (DTaPHib-IPV), but weren't we giving our children five vaccines in one go before as DTaPHib + OPV ? And even MenC on top again (to make it 6?)? Why are people who were happy to give all five before upset about giving it as one jab, especially as IPV does not cause VAPP (the vaccine induced polio) like the oral polio did?

I'm not trying to argue here, especially as my son is currently unvaccinated at 14mo (have been trying to get my surgery to give Infanrix since he was 9mo and finally they say yes just before the doh announcements). I just wonder why everyone is 'shocked' that five are being given in one go with the new all-in-one jab when they were receiving five before via one jab and one orally? You were still overloading the system even then surely? Why wasnt' the fuss made before?

to just clarify in one question! What is the real concern about the new five-in-one jab compared to the previous vacc schedule with DTP-Hib + OPV (which was five)?

For everyone trying to come to a decision on this subject, I thought this article reflected many people's feelings and concern. It's a pity the govt doesn't take more notice of what we 'little people' think.

karen99, I'm surprised that people are shocked at there being a 5-in-1 as we were supposed to be giving those others plus MenC to make 5 anyway BUT some of us didn't. I gave my DD Infanrix on its own, Hiberix on its own, MenC on its own, polio on its own. Bloody complicated I can tell you but it was possible. In theory that should still be possible I suppose and, if not on the NHS then privately but my GP/nurse was OK about the above. Can't the new ones be split at all? I'm asking, I genuinely don't know.

Hi Droile- hope your bp's come down now

Mummytosteven- there are ways to screen out children who would be at risk of vaccinations (any). It would have cost about the same amount to set up as it cost to advertise the MMR (remember baby lying in path of rampaging tiger). It would also cost considerably less than paying for lifetime care for children/adults like my son.
After going through a screen then children could be offered a) normal schedule b) all vax, but more spread out c) some vax but not others d) no vax. IF there had been a screen available when ds1 was "done" then I suspect he would have fallen into category c. The first suspicions of a link between autism and thimerosil were becoming apparent then as well so I would like to think he would have avoided that.

However this is never going to happen as coppertop's experience shows. Her son has plenty of CONVENTIONAL reasons for not being gven DTP and they can't even take that on board. Likewise you'll hear about children who are at risk of epilepsy (very hard to diagnose in an 8 week old) being given DTP even though its contraindicated (so what happens with the new 5 in 1? is it not contraindicated in that case if they've removed DT???)

For me personally Karen99, my worry partly stems from the research into Gulf War Syndrome, which clearly showed it was the COMBINATION of vaccines that caused neurological damage. Each vaccine on their own appeared harmless, but when vaccinated in a cocktail, extremely fit, healthy, strong young soldiers (not tiny vulnerable newborns) started developing neurological damage, severe allergies etc etc. And guess what? The Ministry of Defence ordered the research to be destroyed - yes, destroyed. And it was only investigative reporting by the much-maligned BBC that uncovered all this. Hmm....vaccine damage, cover up.... doesn't it all have a familiar sound?

thanks for the detailed answer jimjams to my query. that's the problem - getting governments to front load investment in thorough pre-vaccination screening. is a 5 in 1 jab likely to be significantly more risky than the current regime of having 5 vaccinations in two jabs about 1 minute apart?

Hi,new to thse boards. My babs has been free from vaccinations up to now and I would like to know if there's anyone I can contact or chat with who has not had their child/ren vaccinated too? I don't go out to mother and baby groups and feel isolated because I have made this choice. Thanks.

Aloha - do you have any links to the gulf war stuff? The biochemical similarities between gulf war vets with GW syndrome and many autistic children is interesting. For example my son has a compound in his urine which is found in gulf war vets (I think but I'm a bit out of date on the latest research). I know sunderland autism research unit have worked closely with gulf war researchers.

Incidentally for GW2 the MOD advised that "where possible" vaccinations should not be given in combination, but should be given singly. A strapping great bootneck can't cope with multiple vaccinations, but an 8 week old definitely can. Hmmmmm

Mummytosteven - I doubt its any less safe, but it just removes the option of having them spread out. For example we had planned to give ds2 (and ds3) tetanus when older- possibly around age 5- but there's no way I'm giving him a 5 in 1 so he'll have to keep out of the way of rusty garden forks until age 10 when there will be a single jab available for him.

Mistressmary- ds2 isn't vaccinated and ds3 won't be either. A lot of my friends either have unvaccinated or only partially vaccinated kids so I haven't really had the problems you have.

Do you have a Steiner school near you? They run parent toddler groups and a lot of children at steiner schools are unvaccinated. If you are in London I can vouch for the friendliness of the Greenwich Steiner school. Alternatively you could move to Totnes , loads of children are unvaccinated there.

dd has had the first round of the dtwp, since the news I am appalled that I was never made aware of the risks. I put my faith in the govenment and assumed they had my dd's health in interest. None of my freinds are aware of the mercury either. I have now written a letter to my gp requesting infanrix, if the response is no which im guessing it will be, is there anywhere that I can have single vacinations privatly and how much, or do I wait for the 5in1 which im also not convinced about. Could I have put dd at risk by giving dtwp once?

Thanks