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What were your reasons for not vaccinating your child?

446 replies

Londonmamma · 29/04/2007 22:41

I don't think we've done this for a while and I like to keep up to date on the vaccination issue so - fire away!

OP posts:
Fillyjonk · 30/04/2007 20:54

one thing i will say

this is the first thread where i have really seen a bit of where the antis are coming from

and that is something i feel rather pleased about

so ta londonmamma for starting thread

rabbleraiser · 30/04/2007 20:56

I am not (regrettably) as informed as some of the regular contributors to this thread. And I don't have an autistic child or any history of susceptibility. This is a very difficult issue, which we've all had to think about (some posters thinking about it right now, and for some it's a fait accomplis).

Have read and heard (and just read and heard), that taking the jabs individually can pose more risks to the immune system. Most GPs (and yes, I know), would advocate the triple jab on grounds of current medical evidence.

I believe that this is an issue where a parents' instinct must come to bear. If you feel that it would endanger your child in any way, then do what you think fit. I personally had no problem with the MMR jab, and my ds suffered no consequences at all. I couldn't even see where the needle had gone in.

But that said, I can't stand microwave ovens and wouldn't let my kid anywhere near one!!!! Many of you would argue that that's irrational, and I would have to agree.

People are pre-disposed to certain things, and it is in our very nature to find out why.

Long live the debate

KerryMum · 30/04/2007 21:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

rabbleraiser · 30/04/2007 21:02

Be very careful with Vitamin A. It's one of the few vitamins where an overdose can prove dangerous.

MrsSpoon · 30/04/2007 21:09

That's nice DC, I might as well just send my children to the chair, get it all over with for them.

Heathcliffscathy · 30/04/2007 21:14

ok.

havne't read thread and before i do and to spare myself some stress on a monday night when i don't need any....

is this a civilised debate? or has it descended into a 'you non-vaccinating evil people exposing my children to killer diseases by compromising herd immunity' idiocy???

anyone?

Aufish · 30/04/2007 21:14

What my partner was trying to say is that basically there are risks no matter what you do in life. For me, the risks of these diseases far outweigh the supposed risk of autism. I know alot of you really do believe this doctor but I made the choice along time ago and at the time of the whole scare and from what I can tell none of my children including the one on the autism range have never had any reaction to the jab. Also can somebody explain to me why my eldest hasn't had any reaction when he has a form of autism and hasn't got any worse from having the jab? Surely if he has a gene that causes it why wasn't he affect any worse when he had the jab?

cathcart · 30/04/2007 21:15

oh god! dd's 12 week jabs tommorow and i've just read this thread! have not done my homework on this at all! what should i be asking the nurse before she goes ahead? how do i know if this is the right thing for my dd?

hatrick · 30/04/2007 21:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

rabbleraiser · 30/04/2007 21:18

No, it's civilized, Soph, and you may wade in if you wish.

As a starting point, I didn't think twice about the MMR jab, but it's a kind of 50/50 debate with some compelling arguments for and against.

No one has been unreasonable to date.

gess · 30/04/2007 21:19

Aufish MMR is believed to be a factor in about 5%-7% of cases of autism. ie nothing to do with 93-95% of cases. Cases where MMR is involved are unusual (and these cases have different physiological symptoms as well). Some children develop autism following difficult births, some following encephalitis. DS1 didn't have either of those but he's still autistic.

gess · 30/04/2007 21:21

cathcart- my main risk factor would be autoimmunity in the family (we have loads- loads loads and loads), and your child being unwell when vaccinated. For MMR gut problems/family history of crohn's disease. I personally wouldn't vaccinate during a severe eczema outbreak either (although I would if I was going to during a mild case). For pertussis I would be careful if my child had seizures.

cathcart · 30/04/2007 21:25

ok, no probs in the family and dd has been all well so far, i'll chat with the nurse beforehand anyway. thanks gess!
nothing like mn to make you question everything you do! good thing and bad thing i suppose.

Aufish · 30/04/2007 21:30

Actually you need to read this thread, he is mentioned here, and he is one of a very few doctors that site that jabs can cause problems with some people. Do you not think that if it was down to genes rather than jabs? Or is it that you don't want to face up to something within the gene pool? I have had to face that myself, my son doesn't get dyspraxia from me, but it is somewhere within either mine or his dad's family not something that I really wanted to face but did. Some people just want something to blame, simple as.

gess · 30/04/2007 21:32

Hope it all goes well.

Aufish · 30/04/2007 21:35

Anyway I am leaving this thread as this subject really gets me. I have made my choice, you guys have made yours. These diseases do kill and me as a parent am not going to take the risk.

gess · 30/04/2007 21:38

Aufish- I have a PhD in genetics (seriously). Although not molecular I admit. Yes I think genes are involved. I think my family are predisposed to to autoimmunity. But genes work in combination with the environment. Very few traits have 100% heritability. Genetics is the reason I have been so careful with triggers for ds2 and ds3. not just vaccination. As I've tested them, and learned more - and other things have happened in the family (not autism- other autoimmune conditions) I have become certain that our family has a genetic problem that leads to dodgy memrbanes- I strongly suspect that the actual fault is in the sulphation system (although I need to read more really- I could be wrong). It is this that makes them more at risk from vaccinations imo.

Heathcliffscathy · 30/04/2007 21:39

oh good.

my ds i unvaccinated to this point. dh and I regularly review this, and there is every chance that at some point he will be vaccinated for tetanus and polio (for eg, if we decided to go and live somewhere where the risks of these diseases were greatly increased).

the reason he is unvaccinated, was that initially I felt on an instinctual level that innoculating an 8 week old that was fully breastfed (and therefore had my immunity) was unnecessarily early. I questioned why the schedule had changed so much and came to the conclusion that the vax schedule is based on the premise that unless GPs and Health Visitors 'get' parents when they 'have' them (i.e. when parent and baby are visiting the clinics) they may 'slip through the net'. This didn't seem a good reason for me to vaccinate and initially I just wanted more time to decide.

I did more reading and came across (in the book 'What Really Woks for Kids') the name of a homeopath that specialises in unvaccinated, and vaccine damaged children. Her book An Educated Decision is not anti-vaccinations. It goes into detail (often harrowing) of exactly what the diseases do and how they are contracted, who is at most risk, and what the best case and worst case scenarios are. She argues that vaccinating children is a valid decision and it will protect them from said diseases, but that there may a price to pay in terms of their overall health. She posits that the huge increase in conditions such as eczema and Asthma may be linked vaccination. Most importantly for me, when she saw us, she suggested that ds (then ten months old, and having developed eczema) come off cows milk. Neither of the GPs we saw suggested this, they immediately prescribed steroid cream. His eczema vanished as soon as we cut cows milk out of his diet.

I started to trust her based on this, and her reasonable stance.

She has proved worth her weight in gold time and time again, where we have been let down by GPs, she has resolved conditions that antibiotics have failed to do.

Most importantly of all, she alerted us to the risks of thimerosal when the Dept of Health were still claiming there were none. As you all know it was withdrawn from the schedule, albeit with no acknowledgement of the risks or the reasons that all other Western countries America and Japan included had withdrawn it from vaccines already.

I trust her a hell of a lot more than I do the Dept of Health. I also (and hate saying this as I'm more than willing to acknowledge that this is fluke) do not know any vaccinated child that has not been to hospital with raging temp and possible meningitis/pneumonia/etc, only to be discharged the next day/day after with no one any the wiser as to what that was. I think this may be about the body reacting to the subtle damage cased by vaccinating in terms of the development of the immune system, but am entirely willing to accept it is totally anecdotal and speculative. 8 children ds's age off the top of my head have had this experience.

Part of the reason for not vaccinating ds is that he has serious auto-immune conditions on one side of the family: dh and his sisters all suffered from terrible eczema as kids, and one of his sisters still has life threatening asthma. In the literature that argues against blanket vaccination and also focusses on possible damaging consequences (and i'm not talking about just anaphylactic shock reactions, but more low level stuff) the case is made that a propensity to these conditions is a contraindicator for vaccination.

Ds is (touch wood touch wood touch wood) extraordinarily healthy. He has loads of coughs and colds (esp since starting nursery, but he has never suffered anything worse in his life and I haven't taken him to the doctor for at least a year (he is 3 1/2).

This is working for us at the moment. We worry about it periodically, but talk through it, read some more and decide that right now, we are not going to vaccinate.

gess · 30/04/2007 21:42

ooh I had no idea you had seen Miranda thingy. Will email you, but not tonight (am meant to working)

Londonmamma · 30/04/2007 21:54

That's really interesting Sophable. I started this thread because I regularly wake up in a cold sweat about my decision not to vaccinate DS2 who is now 7. He is extraordinarily healthy and robust - I can't remember the last time he went to the G.P.

DS1 is 10 and when he was a baby and I heard people question vaccination, I thought they were nuts. Due to moving house he didn't get vaccinated till 4 months and IMMEDIATELY developed exzema patches on his arm, which gradually spread all over his body. It was a homeopath who suggested to me that the preservatives in vaccines could have caused it. He didn't have any more vaccinations and he grew out of the exzema when he was about three and a half.

DH is a very allergic character, I used to suffer with exzema and we both had adverse reactions to vaccines when we were babies. When I started researching vaccines I was blown away by how little is common knowledge.

I am not in the least bit blase about my decision not to do MMR and not to have DS2 vaccinated at all - it is constantly under review. I really appreciate all the experience and info. which people have shared on here.

OP posts:
gess · 30/04/2007 22:02

very similar to my experience LM. DS1 developed eczema immediately following DTP. This eczema became infected with the herpes virus when he was 11 months and his regression followed.

I also wake up in cold sweats about my decision not to vacinate ds2 and ds3. But then when I think about taking them and getting it done... the room goes colder! Dammed if you do, or don't.

UCM · 30/04/2007 22:06

I would rather my child go deaf in one ear than develop a lifelong disability which meant that he needed care 24/7. I know this sounds dreadful but I really mean it.

WriggleJiggle · 30/04/2007 22:10

I have read the thread, but to be honest some of it makes my brain hurt.
dd is 1 yr, so due for her next set of injections. I was thinking of leaving it until she was 18 months before letting her have them, no particular reason apart from I think a slightly bigger child will probably cope better with that quantity of virussy stuff.
Is there any logic to that? Is there a simple yes / no answer to whether it should be left until slightly bigger?

sniff · 30/04/2007 22:10

I am deaf in one ear due to measles vaccintion and am now losing hearing in other

my eldest has aspergers

but I still had them vaccinated and will have dd done too

Flamesparrow · 30/04/2007 22:12

Gess... If I speak to the gp again about DS's screaming after vax (am I right in thinking it is a swelling scream?) how likely are they to actually listen to me?