What were your reasons for not vaccinating your child?

[Londonmamma]

I don't think we've done this for a while and I like to keep up to date on the vaccination issue so - fire away!

'Disproven' and 'discredited' are two entirely different things. In this case, one would require validated scientific fact, whilst the other relied on being able to resource a powerful smear campaign.

Without rehashing the whole MMR debate, it remains that measels was found in the gut of children who became autistic after the MMR jab. The strain was not what is refered to as "wild" measles, but the strain used in the vaccine. While no proof has been found that the MMR caused the autism no one is even LOOKING at why the measels was found in the gut, where it should not have been.

the frightening thing is it worked. And you only had to read the original papers and the reporting of them to see the smear campaign, and how it was all twisted. It wasn;t even particularly well done. Frightening stuff.

"A widely publicised paper produced jointly with the Dublin-based virologist John O'Leary claims that measles virus particles have been discovered in the bowels of children with autism .
This paper does not indicate whether the children studied had received the MMR vaccine or whether the virus particles were the same as those in the MMR. "

propaganda is a powerful tool

Londonmamma - it's a bit like when people talk about those who "choose" to formula feed. It's a generalisation and I have never once suggested that there aren't also good reasons not to vaccinate.

The only papers "proving" that MMR didn;t cause autism didn't even test the right hypothesis. They examined whether MMR was responsible for the rise in autism. Wakefield's theory is that it has been responsible for triggering autism in a subgroup of autistic children. Other researchers put the size of that group to be about 7% of cases of autism. So what MMR is doing in relation to autism numbers is irrelevent really

Dr Wakefield has concentrated his energies on secondary issues, such as the surveillance for adverse effects following the introduction of MMR in Britain, and the controversy over the increased prevalence of autism.
Studies in these areas have taken Dr Wakefield beyond his own sphere of professional competence - gastroenterology -into epidemiology, public health and autism in which he has no particular experience or expertise(???)(-bit like a health visitor getting involved on heart surgery). These studies have failed to provide support for the MMR-bowel disease-autism link.

kerrymum- vitamin A (in cod liver oil) is one of the best treatments for measles. It makes a real difference if given as treatment via the iv route for malnourished children.

Some autistic children seem to have problems with vitamin A synthesis (google megson autism vitamin A), certianly many have odd visual problems (when ds1 was on vitamin A he stopped his weird sideways funny eyes that he does- came back 6 weeks after we stopped giving him cod liver oil).

I just think its safer to make sure they're topped up (although it is toxic so you need to be a bit careful about giving it- apparently it has to be retinol though, not carotenes).

Wakefield's papers were about autistic enterocolitis i.e. guts. His talks are about guts, he continues to work as a gastroenterologist.

Although my little boy has had all his injections I did research and think long and hard before giving them to him

He had all his baby injectons and has had single measles mumps and rubella. He reacted badly to measles but was fine with the other too. He developed a fever pretty much straight away and that night had a fit. it scares me to think that he was in his room alone and not knowing whther he had had more than one, it was only because he woke up saying that he was cold but actually was boiling hot and kept being sick. the only way the hospital could get his temp down was to give him paracetamol through his bum. Thank god he was fine after that and didn't have any lasting effects.

He's had German measles too. If he's had german measles the illness and the first injection does he need to have the booster?

I held off till he was just over 2 and a half to have the injections becasue I couldn't decide what to do.

Gess are you saying that the supposed link to autism in children who aren't predisposed is definitely spurious then?

TM have a look at the Bad Science website (google bad science). DS has had all his injections.

not sure what you mean tm. Some children are more suscpetible than others to MMR for whatever reason. Will every suscpetible child develop autism following the MMR? of course not.

Have to go to bed now but will be watching this one closely. Thanks everyone! Kerrymum - I hope you get the answers you're looking for, I'm sorry to hear about your little boy.

Dancer77 - my understanding is that if a child has had the illness they develop natural immunity and therefore do not need further vaccinations

needs to be cod liver oil for vitamin A. Multivits contain carotenes which most people will merrily convert to vitamin A, so without an autism history I guess that could be fine (I've always been told ds1 had to have vitamin A, not carotenes, but maybe becuase he's autistic)

I'm off to bed now. Going into ds1's school tomorrow. Some of the children there are vaccine damaged, some are damaged by things like meningitis. They all have severe learning difficulties and are looking at a life of care. Kind of sums up the 'you're stuffed either way' really doesn't it. Never an easy decision, I don't think many people decide not to vaccinate lightly. I really don't.

Message withdrawn

I think I misread your post Gess. Personally I was all ready to give DS the MMR but my mum got me worried again. I think you might have responded to my question a while back actually. I'd really like to read the original paper but someone linked me to it and you have to subscribe to the site.

none of the fish oils have vitamin A in KerryMum. You need cold liver oil. The best brand is Nordic naturals _only avilable in the UK thorugh nutricentre (who are painful to deal with unfortunately). Do't get the supposedly delicious kiddy strawberry chewable capsules- they're rank.