What were your reasons for not vaccinating your child?

[Londonmamma]

I don't think we've done this for a while and I like to keep up to date on the vaccination issue so - fire away!

ok dc was trying to be nice

how about

don't be a rude insenstive prick

Gess thanks for that information Amyjade I understand now why this is such an emotive issue for you, I'm sorry if I sounded flippant

Ah fillyjonk, that is at least a valid criticism. Yes I am rude about people who wilfully make crap decisions about their kids health. I am also not "sensitive" to those who think that emoting over homoepathy, crystal healing and angels.
As for being a prick...

Are we supposed to vote?

So if MMR is responsible for autism like some of you believe it is, why aren't there millions of children affected by it? More children are vaccinated with the MMR than there are sufferers of autism. My eldest son has dyspraxia and from everything I have read he is on the autism spectrum, but he was vaccinated with the MMR. Before anyone says anything, it wasn't obvious after the MMR and nor did it get any worse, he showed signs from birth.

My DP also has a point to add about this:
if you could do so, how many of people that are against these Vaccines would, if it was free, happily have a nose job, face lift, boob job, or any other form of cosmetic surgery for that matter? The reason I ask is that Vaccines are believed to have a risk (as yet unproven, but I agree, there is certainly a possibility of this risk) but some very definite medical benefits, whilst cosmetic surgery has no medical benefits, and yet there are known medical risks with any form of surgery, especially those which involve you having a general aneastetic (or however it's spelt)

I still cannot believe that people are still happy to put their children and many more children at risk because of the say so of one man. I wonder in 20 or more years time when there are children and potentially your grandchildren being born with defects because their mother has come into contact with rubella how many of you will wonder if you did the right thing of not vaccinating.

As for chemicals and toxins in the vaccinations, every time you walk down a street you are exposed to god knows what from cars and the such like. We do not live in a sterile world and so are exposed to stuff everyday.

Because only 5% of autism is believed to have been triggered by the MMR. 95% hasn't. For the majority of people MMR will not trigger autism. That doesn't mean it never happens.

Autism itself is not one condition. Your son with dyspraxia and possible high functioning autism will be very different from the severely autistic children I spent today with (ass junior aged in school, most with no speech, some with single words, many in nappies). Their problems have probably all been triggered in different ways. Perhaps some had difficult births, perhaps some were exposed to maternal rubella, perhaps some had very hig heritability. But something that happens only rarely is not the same as something that never happens.

5-7% should say. 93-95% not.

Aufish - I don't understand your post on so many levels.

Firstly, I don't think any of us who are concerned about vaccinations have ever expressed a view that MMR causes autism full stop. It is clearly much more complex than that. Also, it's not all about MMR.

I don't see how cosmetic surgery has a place in this debate. But to answer your question, I am not opposed to it, however I certainly would not sign either of my children up to it. Deciding something for yourself and making a decision on another's behalf are quite different things imo.

Indeed there are a lot of toxins in the environment, which imo is all the more reason not to compound the effects of it by adding more that are unnecessary! It was certainly unnecessary to have mercury in the vaccines. It was there for no other reason than cost effectiveness.

Also why do people always think that concerns about vaccination are caused by Wakefield? I'd never heard of him when I first became concerned about it.

I used to tow the line, so to speak and think the same things that some of you are saying. But then I found that a lot of things to do with the vaccination schedule didn't add up. And since then I have not been able to find answers to my questions, hense my changed view.

Electra, I proposed a flounce on this thread earlier on, but you've been very prolific all afternoon/early evening on the subject, and I understand that it's for good reason. Your debating is reasoned and without spite.

I haven't read the entire thread, but would you be prepared to reiterate (or to say for the first time), whether your children have been innoculated at all, or whether it's just the triple vaccine you have a problem with?

Wakefield has never actually said that children shouldn't be vaccinated. He has actually repeatedly said that children should be vaccinated. He just thinks that it should be as safe as possible for all.

rabbleraiser - my eldest dd had all the baby vaccinations. At the time I thought I was doing the best thing for her. But I didn't know about the mercury that was then in the DTP and I feel that parents have the right to know about ingredients. It didn't feel right to me afterwards (she screamed more than seemed normal). Then the extra hib vaccine was introduced onto the schedule and everyone I asked about it seemed to shrug or have a different reason why it was being introduced. When I probed everything more I was uncomfortable to find that there isn't much consistency or scientific reasoning that governs the vaccination schedule.

I would continue to review my decisions as the children get older though, subject to any new information. We decided against vaccinations for my younger dd who is 2 years younger. My older dd has autism. I don't know the cause. We don't think it's dietary and I suspect genetics is key, but I do think triggers play a role and I want to avoid triggers for my second child until she's older. I just felt that as dd1 has a neurological condition, a neuro-toxin certainly would not have helped that.

The UK has now apparently decided to discontinue with the mercury but I do wonder about what they have done with the stock piled stuff. I did hear that in California autism is no longer on increase since thimerosal was removed - is that right gess? It was a while ago though.

So I am concerened about vaccinations generally, but not against the use of them altogether.

yes- california figures have supposedly dropped as the mercury free set reached diagnosable age. But its quite hard to draw conclusions from the data because there was no immediate cut off, old stocks were phased out, and I have heard US parents telling people to check for thimerosal even now. They also give hep B at birth and I think thimerosal was in that for longer. The thimerosal load in the US was higher than the UK.

I've heard that a 'booster' is simply a repeat of the original vaccination but that the name 'booster' sounds somehow more reassuring.

I see gess - do you think that is a concern here now? (stock piled vaccines with mercury)

Have been dipping in and out of this thread and just needed to @ Aufish.

I do vaccinate, but I wish there were more flexibility over seperate jabs - I have my own concerns about MMR, but about all of the others too. For me it is about firing piles of diseases in at once (albeit in small quantities) and expecting the body to deal with it. Yes, I know it can deal with x amount of things at once, but the average person does not contract all of the same diseases in one go, hence things going haywire (not just autism based, the various reactions).

My son doesn't cope well with jabs - every one he has had so far he has been reacting to for at least 7 days afterwards... he has a high temp, he does that heart rending high pitched pained screaming, he is just not his happy little self.

For that reason I postpone them so he has a decent gap between to recover, but still my HV etc make me feel like shit. Regardless that I still plan to give the jabs, I am lectured on how I am putting everyone else at risk. Right now I care most about protecting my own child. Hideously selfish yes, but give me 3 children about to be hit by a car, and my instinct is to grab my own first.

TBH I don't, because when I've asked about singles tetanus no-one's gone rushing to the fridge to get DT for example , but I would still ask to check the packaging before the injection was given. And I would refuse any injection containing thimerosal.

Incidentally my old (very good) GP, started off pro vax (obviously) - he retired due to ill health last year, and I used our last consultation to ask about tetanus etc (as I trusted him). He had changed his views completely and described it as "ridiculous" that so many jabs were given at once. He wans't being nice to me, we had an "agree to disagree" conversation about vaccinations previously. Just things had happened in his life (that I knew a little about) to change his mind.

Does he do the high pitched screaming at other times flamesparrow? Normally doctors will take that very seriously post vaccination- and tbh in your shoes I would ask to see an immunologist before making any more decisions.

Really gess? How do you get to see an immunologist? I'm dreading giving dd the 5 in one pre-school booster. She reacted badly too it when she had the first lot, still with thimerosol (went floppy after the first one, temperature and unusal and prolonged high-pitched screaming 4 days after the second and third lot). When she was four months she developed food-protein induced entreocolitis, although she has grown out of now. It all makes me very worried about the booster.

Just ask your GP to refer you. When I've actually spoken to doctors about my concerns they've all been very understanding. Most GPs would be happy to refer on- sometimes they have a local person who does the vaccination query meetings, but they;re not necessarily an immunologist (ours is done by ds1's peadiatrician, who is a) odd b) practically passed out with delight when he found ds1 had had single measles and was still autistic, and c) can't answer my questions, so do ask about the speciality of the person you will be referred to. The people I know who have seen immunologists seem to have had good service.

you could ask for an antibody titre for example- it may be that your dd doesn't need MMR at the moment anyway- and that would be the main concern with gut problems.

Really Gess!? They tend to just brush me off with "post ims reaction"

Thanks for that gess. My GP is terrible in that respect. He had a go at me for going for the MMR singles, and he mentions it every time I see him! I'm planning on doing a antibody titre test for the MMR, but that does not seem to exist for the others? So you don't think gut problems are a concern for the 5 in 1? Also, do you know if these anti-body titre tests are a reliable indicator of immunity?

I decided not to give MMR to DS because of Gess. She basically told me what I needed to know. The fact that I am adopted also added to this. I don't have a family history.

I am thinking about giving him it now, 3.6, but because of some problems (in my mind) with immunity I will be definitely giving Vit A beforehand.

Thanks JJ.xx