If you decided to delay or to forgo MMR, how did health professionals react?

[usedtogotomars]

Just wondering about this (and haven’t yet decided) - do they respond in a way that respects your view or do they try to persuade you to have the vaccinations given to your child?

I am 37 weeks pregnant myself and due for my c-section in 15 days. I've been vaccinated for both flu and whooping cough, again unlike the OP who refuses this. Being pregnant is not an excuse for being a fool.

It is simply fallacious to suggest that all vaccines 'wane' with time and as adults we therefore become infectious once more, it is simply not true. There are certain diseases which require regular vaccinations - flu being one as it is caused by a virus which alters its 'shape' frequently and thus is able to evade the primary immune response.

This is not conjecture on my part based on keyboard warrior missions. I am a research scientist with a PhD in biological chemistry.

OP - regarding medical advice. My (severely disabled) son is currently in hospital, over 18, does not have capacity to make anything except the smallest of decisions and we do not yet have deputyship. That means we have no right to make any decisions on his behalf. Anyway I assumed he would just be given the flu jab, but his team asked me my thoughts. I explained why we have never given him the flu jab and why we don’t think it’s in his best interests. Also said that I recognised now he’s 18 it’s not our choice to make.

Anyway his (senior) doctor came back and agreed he shouldn't have it. I expect most of the other patients have had it. I am relieved he hasn’t been given it but surprised tbh as I thought it was almost routine in his situation - but presumably he had come to the same conclusions as us regarding the pros and cons (there are pros and cons to each decision - so a good doc, willing to discuss the situation is helpful if you are struggling with what to do). It is worth talking to a very experienced doctor though - ideally a specialist - you do tend to get a more individual assessment of the situation. You’ll always get doctors who assume giving a vaccination is always less risky than the alternatives but the more senior you go, the more I have found they’ll not automatically assume it’s the only choice.

I go back 20 years to when mine were small. I did vaccinate but here are some of the things people said:

HV "I am responsible for vaccinating your baby". Er, really, I thought that was me. I asked for the arguments for and against "I don't know i only tell you what's written in the leaflet" er, but you are responsible for vaccinating my baby. She was unable to answer a single question. I was pro immunisation - her attitude made me waiver.

DS had very responses to the DTP a cheesy outbreak, culminating in 8 days in hospital with bronchiolitis and a wheeze, allergybridden childhood until about 7/8.

I asked about a flu jab for him and the practice nurse said it was far better for babies like him to get flu and build up immunity naturally.

He responded badly tobfirstvdose of MMR. I then had a discussion with the chief immunologiat who said the advice overall took account of whole populations rather than individuals. We weighed everything up and on balance d's didn"t have the 2nd MMR - his reaction to the first indicated it had been effective. I believe/was told by an expert the second is given because 85% only took first-time and it was an effort to reach 85% overall. Research then as to why it didn't take in some children would have been helpful to justify exposing children twice to the risks - and 20 years ago those risks felt very real.

DS and dd had hib together. Dd no symptoms. DS's arm swelled to such an extent he was under two hour jobs with the practice nurse and nearly admitted.

So for all the snarky comments, ad ice isn't always transparent or well informed or readily available. It's engineered for the dimmest and takesblittle account of individuals.

Unless things have changed then I think the fingers need to be pointed at how hcps communicate rather than parent's decisions based on advice that is often I'll informed and isn't given in relation to evidence based research. That's what would make it better.

Apols for typos but hope you get the gist.

Thanks, Devilish I suppose I am wondering how you find the senior doctors? My own G.P. is pleasant enough but quite young and I worry that like some posts on here will assume it is anxiety related rather than having roots in a history of adverse reactions (and then the ‘but how can you KNOW’ comments come.)

Thanks, Raindrops :)

I was pro immunisation - her attitude made me waiver.

If your stance was so easily shaken by your HV it couldn't have been that well understood.

As an hcp I would be a little wary of starting off with the word 'autism' - I would start by saying there was a severe neuro disability in the family, you don't have all the details but are concerned about triggers in early childhood.

for you and I hope you have a straightforward birth and enjoy your baby.

Yeah my son has a team of them (unfortunately!). Actually he had his first set of baby jabs, it’s his brothers who didn’t, but talking to ds1’s doctors gave me info for ds2 & ds3. I also read a lot of research specific to ds1’s situation. Until earlier this year the decisions about ds1 were ours to make iykwim.

Ds2 is now getting old enough to decide for himself he’s mid teens).I have had some conversations with him - especially when boosters were being given at school - but understanding why he hasn’t been given them, he doesn’t want any. He may change his mind, but that’s up to him. He knows if he travels somewhere even slightly exciting he’ll have to look at getting some. So he understands it’s about pros/cons and risks/benefits. He understands the specific familial risks we were trying to avoid.

Will have the same conversation with ds3 when he’s older but as he pretty much refuses all medical intervention and always has done (nothing to do with me, just the way he is) i can’t see him getting them unless he felt the risks were very high.

With ds2 I wasn’t sure what to do. Initially I just delayed and spoke to the GP about delaying. Initially for a month, then I delayed that. Then looked into alternatives. By then we had more information about ds1 and ds2 that made me refuse them for ds2. But it’s always an open decision and reviewed fairly regularly (usually in response to other things going on). As I said ds2 is now old enough to have his own opinion on it.

You don’t have to make the decision on day one. You can revisit it when you have further information.

Ds1 stopped having jabs in his second year - so it has occasionally come up for him. But given the severity of his disability never had any pressure. Thinking about it when the jabs check has been done in A&E for ds2 and ds3 (always asked when they attend for anything - it’s a standard question) - saying ‘no because ds1 .... etc etc’ nearly always leads to no further questions and an understanding ‘ah okay’.

Dd had single vaccines (but not mumps) as a child. Gp surgery wanted me to bring evidence to them. I told them the could take my word on the matter and they’ve left me alone.

Dd now 17 and I would actually like her to have mmr now but gp surgery will only do it during baby clinic time which is when she’s at school. Keep meaning to take her to baby clinic during school holidays but always forget.

Thank you

My DS didn't have the MMR as a baby as the Wakefield report had just been published and i had my doubts at the time. We tried to get single jabs but the Government stopped them - so he had nothing. I did not have any issues with HCPs but I would say that this had a lot to do with the individual HCPs you are dealing with. I had an older child with multiple disabilities (not caused by vaccine) so had a good relationship with my HCPs whom I saw on a regular basis. My 1st child only had 1 MMR jab not 2 on advice of the GP. She had all other vaccines as did DS.
DS had his MMR at age 16. It was his decision based on his own research and the fact there was a measles outbreak somewhere which could have spread to our area. It was booked with practice nurse. No one commented on the 14 year delay or the fact he had requested it - they just did it.

Hi op,

I'm trying to read between the lines of what your concerns are based on. It seems not to be related to the Wakefield issues(?).

You have a close relative who (you believe?) has been vaccination damaged but not close enough to have access to medical records or being able to ask about medical records. There is also a post about your mother dying relatively young but I'm not sure how this is implicated in the situation.

If I were you, then I would outline to the doctor that you have concerns about vaccines for the above family reasons but that you would be willing to have them if you understood better why the vaccination damage happened in the first place and whether this was investigated. I understand that the GP should then be able to review family history and discuss your specific concerns.

Can I ask, when you say that your know that your relative was vaccination damaged, is this from discussing with the relatives parents? If so can you not ask to see medical records to understand the medical situation properly to discuss with your doctor
doctor? Is it recent, as I understand vaccines change so may no longer be applicable?

The idea that having the MMR jabs separately confers some advantage as the baby is not "swamped" with stuff for its immune system to fight is absolute nonsense. Every human is surrounded by a myriad of bugs every moment of their lives.

In all honesty your post was about what reaction you might get from health care professionals wasn't it? Very simply put, I think they will respectfully listen to your views, possibly make a referral to an expert due to family background and give you literature so they can say you are fully informed at the point of making a decision. I don't think they would strongly challenge you. Sounds like a complicated decision for you. I wish you and your family the best xx

When you look at the adverse drug reaction list for MMRVaxPro it does kind of make you worry! Here it is copied from the Vigiaccess database. Just look it up for yourself. **Note the fatal cases are under ''General Disorders''.

Blood and lymphatic system disorders (5977)
Cardiac disorders (1831)
Congenital, familial and genetic disorders (245)
Ear and labyrinth disorders (1105)
Endocrine disorders (74)
Eye disorders (3730)
Gastrointestinal disorders (14067)
General disorders and administration site conditions (77258)
Hepatobiliary disorders (212)
Immune system disorders (3416)
Infections and infestations (19805)
Injury, poisoning and procedural complications (6191)
Investigations (7886)
Metabolism and nutrition disorders (3937)
Musculoskeletal and connective tissue disorders (7582)
Neoplasms benign, malignant and unspecified (incl cysts and polyps) (128)
Nervous system disorders (25291)
Pregnancy, puerperium and perinatal conditions (579)
Product issues (55)
Psychiatric disorders (10818)
Renal and urinary disorders (552)
Reproductive system and breast disorders (397)
Respiratory, thoracic and mediastinal disorders (8430)
Skin and subcutaneous tissue disorders (47431)
Social circumstances (248)
Surgical and medical procedures (745)
Vascular disorders (5681)

I can't comment on reaction because my child has been vaccinated but please think about this (not only for the obvious reasons) but if you want to use childcare, you might be unable to if your child hasn't been vaccinated. My nursery need evidence that the children are up to date with vaccinations (I'm in the uk)

From the vigiaccess website
"Information on suspected ADR should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicinal product in question, or the active substance(s), generally causes the observed effect or is unsafe to use. Any robust conclusion with regard to benefits and risks of a specific medicinal product always requires detailed evaluation and scientific assessment of all available data. The balance between benefit and risk of a specific medicinal product also varies between individual patients."

Nurseries cannot refuse a place on vaccination status. Not in the U.K.

I always wrote ‘unvaccinated due to family history’ (no further details) on ds2 and ds3’s forms. Never been followed up by anyone. Not even this past year when all the year 10’s were being vaccinated (I thought they might as they had the community health team in). I have come to the conclusion the forms are just filed.

Our preschool would not admit the children. I checked this with the manager quite recently. It was a definite ' no'.

Ours wouldn't and it's a sure start.

My DC didn't have it. The nurse at the time did talk through about the risks and was disapproving, said would I be prepared to see DC with the measles etc. I've also found any time we visit the nurse/new doctor now they "confirm" their records and ask if I have changed my mind. I have had no troubles with school or nursery.

Just a thank you to those who choose not to immunize. I caught mumps as an adult (I was told old to have had mmr ). I was very unwell. What made it even worse is in a nurse that could have spread it to vulnerable patients .

Actually Jaytee as a nurse you should have known you could request immunisation against mumps. DH hadn't had mumps and requested immunisation when we were trying for a family and were sub fertile. No problem at all.

Don't shift blame for your mumps onto those who haven't immunized. It was your responsibility. Just as it is the responsibility of every adult to ensure they are protected by taking personal action rather than expecting children to. You had a choice, you didn't, as a nurse, take that choice. Don't blame others for it please.