We said no to the Nasal flu spray, but it was given anyway

[Stevecam]

Hi. We found out today that after giving the flu Nasal spray permission form with no selected, our daughter was STILL given it. We are going to speak to the headteacher this morning to confirm what happened and if our daughter was given the vaccine against our expressed permission.

Has anyone else been in this position before? This isn't a discussion about whether children should have the vaccine or not, that is down to everyone's personal opinion about the matter, but if it has been given without permission, it's a pretty serious issue we think.

Consent/non consent should absolutely be respected by the school if they have asked for it, so I do appreciate why you're concerned and upset.

However, the staying anyway from "enhancements/treatments" that you speak of, does this also apply to vaccines in your case? If so, I do highly recommend you do some more research on the subject before stating that it's a slippery slope for future generations as it really isn't. If not, then please ignore.

The nasal spray is a live vaccine and there are many reasons people can't have it! There seems to be a major system failure here if they weren't paying attention to who consented were they looking at allergies or medical conditions!! It's dangerous and the school and the pct that organised it need to take action for the future!!

I'm a big believer in vaccinations,

However...the reasons behind you not wanting to are besides the point. I presume it is a belief but what if your dd wasn't having it because she's allergic to an ingredient in it?

Very, very poor on part of the school (and I say that as a teacher so I know how these mistakes can be made, however, some mistakes should not be tolerated)

I'd speak to the head and want to know specifics on how they will ensure it doesn't happen again.

Carrying out medical treatment on a child without parental consent is assault though isn't it?

Another one who would be furious if the school/nurses had cocked this up for all the reasons given. If you had refused because your dd was allergic to the vaccine their carelessness could have killed your dd, not to put too fine a point on it.

One of the specific things I would want to find out is exactly what their risk assessment was that led them to think that an opt out consent form for something so important was a safe idea. It's a really basic thing that a risk assessment should have picked up and stopped long before the consent letters were printed, let alone used.

Can't be bothered to rtft as MN us full of vaccine militants, but OP, I went to a talk by a GP and vaccine researcher who said that the best thing to do if you don't want your child to have a vaccine that's given out in school is to keep them off school that day, as legally your child being in school on the day is seen as consent. The consent form means sod all. She also suggested keeping your child off school for 2 days after to avoid the shedding and shift in general immunity

Please do kick up an enormous fuss OP. By forcing them to tighten up their flawed procedures you could save a child's life in the future.

I'm a practice nurse and school nurse.

This isn't really the school's fault - it's the fault of the school health team who are delivering the vaccine programme in schools. So Health, not Education.

This shouldn't have happened. A vaccine should not be administered without consent. In older children (such as older girls receiving HPV) consent boundaries can be blurred in that a parent can decline consent but if the girl meets the competency criteria set by Fraser Guidelines then she can give her own consent. This is still a hot potato though.

However in a primary school generally speaking children can't give their own consent and so parental/guardian consent must be obtained - no consent form = no vaccine. Consent form supplied but consent not given = no vaccine. It's not rocket science.

You need to take this up with the School Health Team - it's a clinical error.

I have been doing nasal flu vacs this week for the school nursing team.
The procedure we use means I have the parental consent form given to me by the child.
I check the child's identity by asking them questions re , birthday , name , address ..can be a bit hit and miss with the younger ones who don't know the exact days etc. but there is always a teacher in the room to verify a child's identity.
The consent form has a large green box which should have tick , along with other boxes I need to check prior to giving the vac.

If the parents haven't consented the child would not be brought into the hall at all .
So lots of points where the correct child with the correct consent form need to coincide .Teacher checks , our admin checks and finally nurse checks.
Lots of points where this can go wrong but hopefully at some point a mistake will get picked up.

Basically, a nurse came into school, squirted some chemicals up your child's nose with the sole purpose of stopping them passing the disease onto someone for whom it would be dangerous, this is as serious as any bullying, knife or violent act.

What outcome do you want, an apology, a reprimand of the person who carried out this attack, a change in procedure so it can't happen again or a guarantee that you own child will never be subjected to such an act again.

Take it up with the school first, they allowed this to happen on their premises.

The NHS don't even seem to know what their policy is on refusing the flu vaccine. The consent form states that it must be returned whether you say yes or no. The next sentence on the form states that if the form is not returned your child can not be immunised so there are two ways to decline!

Sorry Stevecam but it was inevitable that your post would start the vax debate. I'm very pro-vax so can't get too worried about your daughter accidentally being given a nasal spray that will prevent her from getting flu, assuming she has no allergies. I often wonder though what an anti-vaxxers stance would be if their child was seriously ill and they needed treatment urgently. Is this different? Would you consent then? I find it all a bit baffling as I'd assume you would then.

Yeah Heather it's the principle here - if my DC were inadvertently given the flu vax they could die. There is a reason that schools cannot make unilateral medical decisions for children - schools are not medical facilities.

I need to know that my NON consent form is just that - a NON consent form. It's not ok at all. We don't live in a dictatorship FFS.

Caper what errant nonsense! Being in school on the day is not giving consent.

sue the school? or is that too american? not only did they not respect your wishes, this was not something trivial like watching a movie that you think is inappropriate or something. this is potentially quite serious. what if your child is know to react allergically to it or something?

I agree this is a massive failure of the school's care for your child, they don't administer the vaccine, but they are in-loco parents and you handed the form to the school - so they were responsible for your child being appropriately managed.

But, the vaccine has been given and nothing can undo that now.

So focus on what you want from this process, obviously not to happen again, but do you want an apology, a review of procedures.... might help clarify in discussions to keep an eye on the end goal you'd like to achieve.

I would be fuming too.

My son has had it at the drs, I dont what the side effects would be if he would have it twice.

make
although the nasal spray vaccine is live this is not neccessarily a danger!

The vaccine contains live but weakened flu viruses that do not cause flu in children. It will help your child build up immunity to flu in a similar way as natural infection, but without the symptoms.
just for accuracy.

Mollie - it is for people with a severely weakened immune system or taking steroids.

In such cases they need to have the injected vaccine which is not a live vaccine.

I didn't say it was a danger or that they would get flu though. I just said there are many reasons people can't have it as above poster said. The dangerous part is if the information from parents is not being appropriately used mistakes might happen

I too would be furious, both with the school and with the nurse that administered the spray. Just because they are children doesn't mean you can override their rights.

Having said that, I would imagine this is happening all over the place on a daily basis.

This was my fear. So I kept my daughter off school that day.

I would be absolutely livid and be demanding apologies and policy and procedure review from both the school and the local nhs authority. This is not on. And to those who don't seem to think it's a big deal because they think the vaccine is necessary, replace 'flu vaccine' with any other medical procedure (however great they are for their purpose) and do you still agree? Would you be happy for your child to undergo something against your wishes? Vaccines are not mandatory and rightly so. And the point at which any medical intrusion becomes forced then we have lost our humanity

Very, very poor on part of the school (and I say that as a teacher so I know how these mistakes can be made, however, some mistakes should not be tolerated)

I'm really surprised that you are a teacher and yet are completely unaware that the vaccination programme is entirely organised and administrated by the NHS and that school is only used as a venue because it enables a large number of children to be vaccinated at the same time, thus saving the NHS money which could be used elsewhere.

I'd have gone nuclear, particularly if it involved dd, as there's a history of bad reactions to vaccinations in my dc (dd was in ICU for several days as a result of one allergic reaction).

Haven't read the rest of the posts, apologies if it's already been said.

1. Vaccine should not be given without consent...it's the law.
2. The school has nothing to do with it, forms are collected and given directly to the NHS staff.
3. Vaccines are managed and administered by the nurses who come in to school.
4. It can't even be down to school 'forgetting to give a form' or losing a form as, again, the vaccine can't be given without written consent.

So, yes, complain, but not to school.
(Cannot possibly think of a good reason to not get child vaccinated, but each to their own!)

*sorry, apart from a medical one!