We said no to the Nasal flu spray, but it was given anyway

[Stevecam]

Hi. We found out today that after giving the flu Nasal spray permission form with no selected, our daughter was STILL given it. We are going to speak to the headteacher this morning to confirm what happened and if our daughter was given the vaccine against our expressed permission.

Has anyone else been in this position before? This isn't a discussion about whether children should have the vaccine or not, that is down to everyone's personal opinion about the matter, but if it has been given without permission, it's a pretty serious issue we think.

It's not the school's fault. There was a child in our school who could not have the flu vaccine for a very valid medical reason and as she is quite small, Mum was worried about her slipping through the net.

As each child was vaccinated the NHS nurse who was doing the vaccinations confirmed the child's identity with the child, and with the teacher and physically checked the form had been signed by a parent before going ahead.

Teachers play no part in the vaccination process - no point complaining to school, but ask them to give you the contact details of the relevant NHS department so you can raise your concerns there.

You're right to ask them to review their processes.

However, if only the children who were at serious risk of harm from the vaccine were excluded, there would be a very small number who would be easier to monitor, rather than the whole of 'your group' refusing it for vague and ill-founded reasons.

I would hope that any school-aged child who is unable to have the vaccine for medical reasons will be very aware that they must not have it and wouldn't just follow along their classmates blindly.

So Gertrude you would expect 4 year olds to know and understand that?

Ds is nearly 7 and this is the first year he has been able to understand why he can't have the spray when everyone else did.

Definitely a serious issue, regardless of this particular child and whether it's the school at fault or an outside body. I was only allowed vaccines as a child/young adult in a situation where there was resucitation equipment on hand due to severe and unexplained allergic reactions (not to vaccines, but medical advice was to avoid them unless essential).

It's irrelevant whether or not a large number of people are refusing the vaccines, there must be a robust failsafe procedure in place to ensure that only the right children receive them.

I was helping out the school nurses (bank nurse)delivering the flu to primary children last week .This is a nurses worst nightmare.
I was paranoid about checking the consent and the identity of the child.
The consent forms are also checked by our admin and only the children whose parents have consented were brought to us in the school hall.

So yes, talk to the school nursing team lead about this ,the school staff aren't the ones who made the error.

I gave permission for my dd to have it however we were never told when it would be.
They all came out of school on the Friday before half term with a picture they'd been given that said they'd had the vaccine that day.

Regardless of your choices the school are in the wrong.
In our school I think if you didn't want it done you didn't hand the form back at all so every form they had were yes forms. Makes much more sense and no confusion then.

The vaccine contains gelatine, so not suitable for vegetarians, vegans, Jews or Muslims.

I also think it's very serious that the vaccine was given against your instruction. I would be furious.

I would be absolutely livid! That's a pretty serious cock up in my book and merits a formal complaint and assurance From the school that they will review their procedures so that this can never happen again.

I would actually Sirzy - maybe not the exact reasons but they should know that it's dangerous to them in the same way that a child with a serious food allergy knows they can't eat cheese or eggs or whatever.

I didn't know about the gelatin although I've yet to meet a vegetarian child who doesn't scoff a packet of haribo when their parents aren't looking

The vaccine contains gelatine, so not suitable for vegetarians, vegans, Jews or Muslims.

but (most) religious bodies say that the dietary rules do not apply to medicines. would be impossible as many medicines use some animal derived substances and all medicines are tested on animals.

It's irrelevant whether children should have the spray. If consent is sought then it shouldn't be given without and in fact this probably then counts as assault. It's a major error and should be taken very seriously.

I am pro vaccination.

But it is absolutely unacceptable for a school to administer medication to a child in their care without the express permission of the parents. Where the parents have specifically refused permission it is doubly wrong.

Actually this counts as an unlawful assault. I would be pursuing this vigorously with the school, governers included and at the very least establishing how they intend to change their procedures to avoid a repetition.

I would be extremely concerned about the procedures with the nurse/school because this should NOT have happened.

Our dd had already had hers due to a pre-existing medical condition and I refused to send to form back to school with "No" selected for this very reason. People are in a rush, get given a pile of forms and possibly just check for a signature. My DH additionally popped in to the office on the day of the spray and reminded them that dd shouldn't have it.

I would be making a very serious safeguarding complaint (and I'm pro-vax and a teacher!).

My son has an illness that means he cannot have the flu vaccine - if he were accidentally given it, it could be life threatening. Please call the school up on this - precaution must be taken to not vaccinate children whose parents don't consent. I e just sent in the non-consent form but will also be phoning the school as well as having informed my DS that he must never have it.

It's very worrying to hear that this has happened.

I am incredibly pro vaccine and I think people who withdraw their children because they have "done their own research" aka "read some stuff on the internet" are ridiculous.

But doing anything to a young child when they parents have specifically said not to is seriously outrageous. Take it up with the NHS Trust involved. And don't allow yourself to be fobbed off.

@ofudginghell "In our school I think if you didn't want it done you didn't hand the form back at all so every form they had were yes forms.". At our school apparently it is an opt out service. So if there is no form found the child gets it anyway. I can just see that also being a massive problem, when people start loosing forms. We gave our form to a teacher, so if they lost the form then this could have also caused it. We will find out in due course. I will of course keep you posted for the record.

@BathshebaDarkstone Yes it contains Gelatine and my wife and I are vegetarians, however we bring our child up with meat in her diet, it is her decision to make when she is older. This wasn't the compelling reason we didn't want her to have it, as a family we try and take as little "enhancements/treatments" as possible as it is a slippery slope for future generations, and as I said this isn't about opinions on wether children should have it or not, we will all agree to disagree on that in this thread, that is a whole different conversation :-). It is important that policies and mistakes are kept to a minimum, as one day it could be more serious, such as giving the wrong medicine for example.

Our daughter is 6, even if she joined her friends in the queue, there should have been checks, there were plenty of other children in her same class that did not have it. We are meeting with the head soon to discuss it, it could be a lawsuit but we are not like that so I doubt we will head down that route at all, the schools and NHS have enough problems. But I wont be happy if after the meeting I 1. Feel like they are brushing us under the carpet. 2. Do not know how the mistake happened. 2. Do not see policy changes in the way it is done so that it wont happen again.

I will consider taking our daughter out of school for vaccine day and educated her for the day at home, if people are not doing their jobs properly.

I am hoping to see if this has happened elsewhere, so if it has happened to you also, please let us know on here, it would be interesting to see how it was resolved.

This has reminded me I need to explain our decision not to let our son have this and make sure he is well briefed not to get in the queue by accident!

I wish I could edit out my typos! lol Sorry.

@jellywitch, yes we mentioned it to our daughter in passing, we should have made a bigger deal of it I guess. Our daughter got upset about it this morning as she thought it was her fault, we assured her it wasn't. It really shouldn't have to be down to the children, but it is a good extra barrier to incompetence I guess... ironically down to a 6 year old child, rather than teachers or trained NHS staff!

I would be livid. I realise I could get flamed for this as it won't be a popular suggestion but situations like this could even be viewed as criminal as it's a medical intervention without permission with the potential for severe side effects. As a trained first aider I can't even put a plaster on someone without asking permission and identifying myself.

If I were you I would be googling in case there's info online. I would verify it definately happened and not that your child was confused and then I would be pursuing it big time.

Shocking breach of duty of care on behalf of all that were involved in this process. The school and the NHS service delivering the vaccine. Parental permission is sought, vaccines are not mandatory.

I completely disagree that the child should have known to say no. Children are taught to obey the instructions of their teachers and adults in position of responsibility. It takes a strong adult to go against authority figures and stand up for what they believe is right and an even stronger child.

I have a child with complex allergies and I have lost count of the number of times well meaning adults have gotten it wrong and assured him that XYZ is OK. The failure to respect his autonomy over his own body shocks me.

Regardless of whether everyone around you agrees with your decision we live in a country where you are responsible for making these decisions for your child and your instructions should have been followed.

I would have thought it will be recorded as serious incident and a report will be compiled. There are a serious of checks in place to ensure this can't happen so really I think protocol hasn't been followed and you will be issued with an apology. As long as your daughter is unharmed it will be recorded as an "no harm caused adverse event".

I do think though that mistakes can and do happen in every profession.

Stevecam while I really don't think you should be flamed for your decision, do you know that you could be putting other people's lives at risk by your choice? My DS1 has cystic fibrosis and flu could kill him.

I do agree that the school have been negligent though.

Did you explain to your dd that she shouldn't have it?
DS cannot have due to allergies. We made sure he was 100% clear what to do when everyone went for vaccination. Made sure he understood he mustn't have it, and what to do/say if they tried to administer it. He's used to being careful due to those allergies, but he had to repeat back to us to make sure he was clear.
His school were very clear on their protocol anyway, and he didn't even get taken down to the Vax room.
Please raise this - a child could be made very ill if they cannot have it for medical reasons!