Abortion rate highest ever - I'm sorry I just don't buy the reason suggested for this...

[CountessDracula]

"But pregnancy advice groups said the figures probably reflected poor access to contraceptive services"

What utter tosh

You can buy condoms in many loos in clubs and pubs. In any chemist or 24hour shop.

You have access to family planning clinics and doctors with free contraception

You can buy the morning after pill over the counter ffs

Shouldn't people take a bit more responsibility and get themselves to these places and get some bloody contraception?

Really Paula, in spite of your beliefs, it would be good if you could show a little empathy to women who find themselves in difficult circumstances.

And no-one having a termination can be accused of killing a baby. The law does not recognise the foetus as a baby.

OH MY GOODNESS!! yes, i did mean determination! how odd ! sorry !

I think you see what you want to see. You refuse to acknowledge that there are women for whom termination is the right decision.

lulu. nothing like a freudian slip for a bit of light releif, eh?

Lulumama - it made me chuckle!

"That's the problem with a lot of people who are pro-abortion"

Practically nobody is pro-abortion. I'm certainly not. But I am pro a woman being treated as a fully sentient adult and not being infantilised by having decisions about her body and her life being made by other people who think they know better than her.

But I think I've already said all this...

And I notice you haven't addressed any of the politics of women's status in soceity vis a vis the right to abortion Paula.

Just because I don't agree with abortion doesn't mean I don't have empathy for people in this horrible situation. Its a scary situation to be in. As I said I do my best to help people in this situation all the time. Some do go on to have abortions and I have never been judgmental. Even when they come back looking for counseling after.

I think that most of us would agree that there will always be a negative aspect to an abortion. But sometimes not having an abortion would be even more negative.

What we should be doing, as a society and as mothers, is to make sure that the number of people placed in the situation of needing an abortion is as small as possible, through positive use of contraception. We need to raise our children to be adult wnough about sex to protect themselves from its more inplesent outcomes.

Some of the Anti-abortion groups would disagree with me though.

thanks!

paula....i really think that you think you empathise,,it is just not coming across that well..

if you have contact with such women, surely you must see the distress, i imagine a tiny minoruty of women use it as a form of contraception and the vast majority are distressed by their decision

i too, am not pro abortion, per se, but pro choice and pro the rights of living women over putative babies

What sort of counselling do you give them, Paula?
I was under the impression that the most effective counselling is given by trained people who are impartial?

Go Caligula.

I don't personally give them counseling I put them in contact with one of several counselors I know who have experience dealing with women who have had abortions.

How can you be truly empathetic when you believe that abortion is 'killing babies'?

I empathise with their situation. I myself have never been there. Just because I don't believe in abortion doesn't mean that I can't imagine how scary and how hard it must be.

'You are taking a life. That is shameful.'

Hmmm loads of empathy there Paula.

Frankly, telling a woman that she doesn't have the competence or status as an adult to make decisions about her own body, is truly shameful imo.

"I just know that killing your baby shouldn't be an option for people."

Well it is and it has been throughout human history. The facts are that in many societies when resources are scarce, babies are sacrificed so older siblings don't go with less.

Yes, we call that murder in the west and it is outlawed.

But the fact remains that difficult decisions still have to be made in the west and if technology can provide a safe and humane way to negotiate these dilemmas via abortion then that is better than infanticide.

Wouldn?t you agree Paula?

And abortions are restricted.

I believe in no questions asked access to abortion before 12 weeks. If there was less delay at this stage, again, the potential to stop suffering would be huge.

LOL at 'pro-abortion'

I've never been to an abortion party - wonder why..?

Is a zygote a baby?

Yes it is a baby.

Also to answer you question in case you haven't guessed abortion is infantcide.

That is simply a riduculous stance. A zygote is a baby?!

Why exactly do you object to abortion?

Oh, paula, come on.

I have read most of this thread and even though I disagree with you I admire your tenacity.

But - two cells is a baby? Really?