Vitimin D, can it have this effect?

[SistersofPercy]

We had a discussion over on AIBU last week about being pale and someone mentioned vitamin D if you don't get in the sun much. Now, I don't go out a great deal it has to be said and if I do I avoid sunlight.

I have Hypermobility and scoliosis so take 30/500 codeine, Diazepam and Nortryptilene daily for this. It's tended to leave me pretty lifeless as well as the painkillers affecting my bowels (TMI, apologies)

Anyway, just over a week ago I started to take vitamin D supplements. This week my bowels are as normal and regular as they were before the painkillers, my joints are a lot less clicky and I have double the energy. I've been in the garden all morning, pottering and moving plants around etc, something I've put off for the last 4 months because I didn't have the energy.

Whats going on here? Have I found something I was lacking with the Vit D or am I just having a good week lol

hoplittlebunny Yes, if you have been getting sun exposure as you described, over a few months, then it would be expected that your blood level of 25hydroxyD3, would be higher.

 it is UVB in sunlight which makes vit d in the skin. UVB. Is only present in summer months  10 til 3 pm, in the UK.  in April and Oct , only around 1 pm,  for about an hour.  Also.sunlight should be direct, not through windows, or clouds, which will absorb some uvb.   Suncream will stop you making vit d, especially factor 15 or above. To get a good vit d response, try to expose 40% of your skin at least.     Are you at a high latitude, Scotland, ?  Light there is particularly weak,  specially West coast. The closer to solar noon, the   more uvb is present. Solar noon in the UK, is. 1pm. BST.   Be careful not to burn yourself, little and often is best.

If you have been treated for 3 weeks, then not much time has elapsed, to allow vvit d to work. Normally with bone problems , it would take months. If you need to rebuild bones, then try and get bone nutrients in your diet. Calcium, magnesium, etc. Bone is 50% protein, make sure you get at least 1.2 gr per day per kilo of body weight.,

Is your prescription. D3, most vit d researchers would recommend that rather than D2 form.

It would not be unreasonable to have a daily D3 dose, however you are under the care of your medical professionals, and you should consult them about your intentions.
If your blood level is 25 now, then it is likely that you will need to carry on taking some vit d after your loading doses have finished. Possibly 3000 or so per day. Check you blood level, make sure they are going in the right direction. Allow time for it to work.
Of course you may have other issues which are causing your problems, as well. By making sure you have a good level of vit d , you are giving yourself a fighting chance !

Good luck

BTBH

Ok, lab 'normal' is > 50.0
My levels were 65.3 nmol/

(In case that helps anyone.)

This is really interesting. I had blood tests a few years ago as I was going through months at time where I suffered from achy joints, foggy head, lethargy and feeling down. The blood tests showed up nothing abnormal but afaik they didn't test for vitamin d levels.

I'm not really keen on going to the doctors so when they said my results were normal I felt embarrassed for wasting their time and didn't push for more even though I knew I wasn't right.

The brain fog and lethargy are the worst. Some days I felt unable to get out of bed. Getting to work was such a struggle. I've not really had problems in the last few months though apart from occasionally getting joint pain. I wonder if that's because I've been taking a multivitamin for pregnancy and then one for breastfeeding for nearly 2 years? Or maybe it's just a coincidence. Either way, I'm definitely going to get some higher potency vitamin d tablets to take separately.

waggle

Yes, if you respond as an average person, then 4000 IU , should raise your blood level by 100 nmol/l. ( people are different, with different responses )

 The. IOM ,  ( Institute of Medicine ) in the USA have said that 4000IU per day is the tolerable upper intake level .  I.e. will not cause problems for a normal healthy adult.

No toxicity has ever been shown at doses below 30,000 IU

Just so you know - 100 ug. is the same as. 4000 IU. Don't confuse them ...!!

Hope this helps

Good luck

BTBH

I did buy vitmain b-complex tablets but I don't think I ever took them, if I did it wasn't for very long. I should dig those out I think.

I've started taking B12 too Ship

BTBH Thank you that's really helpful. I did mean 4000iu, sorry So I'll take that and see how I feel in a couple of weeks or longer. I'm not getting any help from the GP and my life is at a standstill because of the illness so I'm going to help myself. It's fascinating stuff.

Thank you BTBH

place marking for later x

does anyone know if for children the ideal range for vit d is the same as for adults?

bump?

I found this Kumi www.rnoh.nhs.uk/clinical-services/paediatric-adolescents/vitamin-d-children

Seems to suggest that it is the same. The best thing to do if you're concerned is get the child concerned tested and when the results come back, ask for a copy of the results even if they say it's fine.

But BTBH will know more so bumping for you.

thanks a lot.
it's a jungle out there, so difficult (for me) to find information beyond supplement adverts...
we have the results and dc looks to be not deficient.

Glad they're ok.

kumi Children need a healthy level of vit d circulating in their bodies, just like adults.

Your question ,  what is a healthy range,   do you mean blood level ,  or do you mean amount of supplementation. ? What age are you enquirinq about.

The amount of supplementation depends upon their weight. A new born will require just a few hundred units, an 18 yr old will need the same as an adult. The amount of supplementation will vary depending upon their blood level.

In the UK, recommended supplementation levels are pretty good for young children.
If formula fed, then there is quite a realistic dose of supplementation in the milk.

Exclusively breast fed infants may not receive adequate , if the mother is not getting sufficient vitamin d from sun and or supplements.

Cows milk contains no vit d. ( In the UK ) Some dairy products are fortified, it should say by how much on the label.

  From your previous message ,  I assume you have had blood levels measured. If they are in the range below. 50,   then that would definitely be  below that considered sufficient by most vitamin d researchers. Indeed levels below 75 , would  be considered below optimum for bone health by quite a number in the medical field. Optimum  regulation of calcium absorption occurs around the 75 to 80 level.  Other health benefits can accrue at higher levels,  many vitamin d researchers suggest over 100.

A new born, supplemented with 300 IU. Will more than likely be in the 100 range. This is good, and considered acceptable. However current recommendations, will not keep that blood level, as we grow older, the recommendations do not keep pace with our weight increase.
Have a good look round the vitamindassociation website. They have a pretty good amount of information about this subject.

Hope this helps.   

BTBH

AlzIheimer's

Looking at the news today, there has bem.youtube.com/watch?v=djvE9mhIjUIen a lot of interest in AD. In particular, how an antibody medication may slow the progression.

This thread seems to be pretty wide ranging over various health topics, so I thought it may be appropriate to bring up some research , carried out about 2 years ago in California by Matthew Mizwicki, PhD.

He has shown that the hormone form of vit d. Affects the behaviour of macrophages ( white blood cells ). These cells become more able to clear away amyloid plaque from the brain.

Other epidemiologic research has shown that suffers from AD, tend to have a lower vit d level, also the rapidity with which it progresses is greater in patients with lower levels.

  Put together this research may be indicative that a good level of vitamin d in the blood,   ( particularly the.autocrine activity ).  may be beneficial in acting against this disease.      
   What I have mentioned here is not absolute proof,  obviously,  but to my mind, it is another indication that levels of vit d could and should be higher than currently found in most of us here in the UK,  and most of the Western world.

  Here is a YouTube presentation of his research,   possibly a little technical,  but very interesting.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=djvE9mhljUl

  I do believed that if I or any member of my family  had AD worries, I would check their vitamin d levels, and raise them to the region of 120 to 140. Older people tend to be lower in vit d, probably because they are less mobile and do not get out in sunshine so often. Also,  older skin becomes less efficient at converting sunlight to vit d. ( up to 75 % less efficient )

BTBH

m.youtube.com/watch?v=djvE9mhIjUI

Still trying to post that address. Hope this works !

Thank you BTBH I'll definitely watch that tomorrow. I find it incredibly interesting and the info you've shared is such a great starting point and spring board for looking into it further myself with regards to M.E.

I was trying to persuade my DM to take vitamin D but she was worried about 'taking too many things'. Is it really difficult to take too much? I do think she'd feel the benefits so hoping I can convince her.

thanks
the result was over 80.
we do supplement in the winter months
the test was done due to bone pain which turned out to be something else not deficiency related.

kumi That level is looking good, probably higher than most children in the UK.
A blood test around end of March, will let you know how well the level is being maintained. From Nov to March , sunlight in the UK is too weak to make vit d. Supplements,food or possibly sunbed are the other options.

waggle

  Glad the info is of some use to you !        Let your mother know that  up to 4000 IU is considered perfectly safe by the. Institute of Medicine. (USA)

From your point of view, I would definately keep taking it longer than a few weeks,  having a good level over a long period of time is much more likely to be beneficial. I would also suggest, that if possible you get some sun. The reason being that sunlight creates other photo products in your skin, which may well have benefits to our physiology. Recent research  has shown at least two benefits,   endorphins with,  natural painkiller/antidepressant qualities, also nitric oxide, with beneficial activity in the cardiovascular system. Other unknown benefits may be there, research is ongoing.  Obviously, don't burn, take it steady..!    How about some sunshine for your mother as well.

BTBH thank you I definitely plan on taking it long term but will take more than a maintenance dose for a couple of months maybe longer. I have been tending to cover up in strong sun as I'm very pale and burn easily but I'll make a conscious effort to sit out for 15 mins or so and see how I get on with that. Unfortunately it's been cloudy and raining here for the past two weeks. Maybe I should book a holiday. I'll pass that info onto my DM. She does get quite a bit of sun as she goes walking a lot. Thanks again. Much appreciated!

Hi all, I am running around so don't have time at the moment to read all the posts, but did want to say that my father is a very well known scientist and has been publishing a series of papers about Vitamin D deficiency and all the problems that come from it. The first paper in the series was showing that Vitamin D deficiency in the pregnant mother is probably one of the main causes of autism (probably combined with some genetic pre-disposer). 2nd paper was about Vitamin D deficiency and its connection to the mood disorders and depression. 3rd (or maybe 4th) paper will be about vitamin d deficiency and its relationship to sleep and digestion. You basically need Vitamin D to do just about everything important in your body. The Vitamin D Council (and my father) recommends supplementing with 3000-5000 iu a day to keep your Vitamin D levels at an appropriate/healthy level. It's pretty impossible to overdose on Vitamin D. There is essentially no difference between supplementing or getting it from the sun in terms of efficacy. It is very very difficult to get enough vitamin d in the uk in the winter unless you are very white (dark skin filters out the sun and vitamin d isn't made) and spend a lot of time uncovered in the outdoors.

My experience is that these days in the states most doctors are happy to test vitamin d levels although not all will proactively suggest it.

Sofia I'd be interested in reading your father's papers on the subject if they're on the internet anywhere. If that'd be ok and you'd prefer not to give his name here, could you PM me?

Obviously fine if you'd rather not.

Sofia Sorry just realised who he is. I obviously need to up my vitamin D even more.

Sofia I'm glad you said that as I have been taking 3000u sublingual spray each day and was wondering if I should cut it down for maintenance but it sounds like that is ok

I don't understand why people bother with asking for tests. The spray costs less than £10 for 3 months. Unless you are on a tight budget why wouldn't you just try it?