Vitimin D, can it have this effect?

[SistersofPercy]

We had a discussion over on AIBU last week about being pale and someone mentioned vitamin D if you don't get in the sun much. Now, I don't go out a great deal it has to be said and if I do I avoid sunlight.

I have Hypermobility and scoliosis so take 30/500 codeine, Diazepam and Nortryptilene daily for this. It's tended to leave me pretty lifeless as well as the painkillers affecting my bowels (TMI, apologies)

Anyway, just over a week ago I started to take vitamin D supplements. This week my bowels are as normal and regular as they were before the painkillers, my joints are a lot less clicky and I have double the energy. I've been in the garden all morning, pottering and moving plants around etc, something I've put off for the last 4 months because I didn't have the energy.

Whats going on here? Have I found something I was lacking with the Vit D or am I just having a good week lol

girliefriend I was like you.

But I figured my sun exposure was no different than other things we do for health, like sticking to a good diet, or going for a walk.

I timed my time exposed. 8 minutes sitting with my face towards the sun, 8 minutes with my back to the sun (wearing shorts and a bikini top for maximum exposure to skin surface).
When I was done, I applied sunscreen and/or covered up.

I found a website which gave time you could spend in the sun without burning, based on time of year, latitude and longitude!

In February, that was 8 minutes in the Canaries, in May only 3!

I like the sun a lot more now!

BTBH, I've had a look at the Vit D association website & they say older children should be getting 600IU a day, especially during winter but all the supplements I can find for children contain less than that. Can we use this one & give them 2 squirts in the winter but one in the summer just to top up what they're getting from the sun? I've no reason to think they're deficient at the moment - they're Caucasian, spend a fair amount of time outside & don't wear sunscreen unless they're outside for any length of time in the middle of the day. I suspect my levels aren't great though so I'm going to start taking a supplement & I figure it won't do any harm to make sure they're sorted too!

BTBH - thanks for your reply. I'm now a but worried that DD has never had a vit D supplement! Why don't HVs tell us such things? She did have some formula between 8 months and 12 months but has had cows milk since then. She eats cereal though which is fortified.

girlie friend because you have had your gall bladder removed this may partially hinder your absorption of fat in which Vitamin d is soluble. This may make it more difficult to absorb the vitamin d dissolved that fat. When you eat animal products you are likely to be consuming some vitamin d or metabolites in that meat, some of which may not be absorbed. Therefore there is some risk that your vit d levels will be below those that would have prevailed,if you had not had your gall bladder removed.

 This is not a big problem for you, because you now know about it. You can increase your vit d intake to compensate. It does make a lot of sense to regularly check your level,  yearly, say, end  March /April time, when your level is likely to be lowest.

Sublingual may prove to be the most effective route for you, although it may also be possible to take other supplements, you may just need a bit more than the average to raise you blood level by a given amount. Modest sunshine should be very effective. Don't burn , ever. To obtain vitamin d from sunshine, follow what has been said on here. In summer, between 10 and 3 , 20 mins, or less if you are likely to burn. In winter you cannot make vit d, in the UK from sunshine. The light is too weak.

Your first step is to find out your level, then take appropriate action , if it needs to be improved !

BTBH

Thanks BTBH I have had my blood taken today and the dr said will get the result middle of next week. I have taken my multivitamin today as am thinking it will be better than nothing!

Agnu I think that is quite sensible. One of the important things to remember about vit d, is that your body evolved with a near constant input and a near constant level. The closer we get to that, the better. Your strategy should go a long way to achieving those aims.

As you can probably see from my earlier posts, I do think testing your level in March/April time gives a really good indication of how you and the kids are doing. Vit d requirements increase with body weight.

Good luck

BTBH

pointless fan As far as I understand it, HVs don't have to tell you. Gov guidelines are just that,guidelines. The fact is , if gov guidelines were adhered to, then there would be no deficiency in babies over 6 months old. ( except in rare genetic exceptions )

As you can see from my earlier posts, in the USA, they supplement from birth, to my mind a better strategy. ( b/fed )

I would say, follow the guidelines, now that you know them. You are obviously a concerned mother, doing your best for your child, she is in the best of hands. !

Hope this helps

BTBH

When you get a standard blood test done, are vitamin d levels one of the things that gets checked? By standard blood test I mean the one that's looks at creatine, protein etc?

shipshape They will only test for vit d, if it is specifically asked for. As far as I know.

The test you need is for 25hydroxyD,      this is the marker for overall D  status.

The level of 1,25 dihydroxyD ( I.e. the hormone form ) is not normally tested except for specific investigations , such as kidney problems. This latter form varies hour by hour.

Hope this helps

BTBH

& they won't do it unless pushed

I asked the nurse, who asked the doctor, how phoned me to tell me how unlikely it was that I was Vit D deficient unless I was dairy free (which I was & had been for several years & it was on my notes) & then told me it was expensive & he had to ask the practise manager if I was allowed to have it

& then my sample sat at the hospital for weeks as they only do them in full batch tests so I had to wait for enough people to need them

Apparently

I asked for mine to be done at an initial rheumatology appointment last week where she declined (and laughed at me for asking!) but got GP to agree to having it done. I had the test on tuesday and called yesterday for the results and she said they can take 2 weeks to come?

Mine took about 7 weeks for the results to come back

My Dr said ystd they don't like testing people for vitamin D deficiency as normally all the results come back with a deficiency

Blimey Katymac I hope mine don't take that long.

Consultant seems to think Ive got Rheumatoid Arthritis and wants to get me started on Methotrexate but I want to check my Vitamin D levels first as lots of my symptoms point to that. Ive got another hospital appointment in 2 weeks so I wanted to have all the information for that.

My results came back in about 3 weeks but I haven't actually had a chance to see the doctor yet, they just phoned with the results and put out a prescription. They did the same with iron tablets when I was pregnant but the midwife looked at the results and said my iron levels were only very slightly low so not to worry too much. This time though I feel like I do have many of the symptoms mentioned on here so maybe my vitamin D levels are quite low.
Thanks for the advice re DD, she was breastfed so I'm going to look into supplements for her. I really had no idea about needing to supplement until I saw it mentioned on this thread.

I have been diagnosed with CFS/ME and started taking 2000iu D3 three days ago because I feel it might help. Having read this thread I think I'll up that dosage. I have been tested and the levels were 'normal' according to the lab parameters. I got copies of my blood results so I'll post what they were, tomorrow.

If it can help even just a little with the awful symptoms I'll be so grateful. Nothing to lose really.

Great thread btw. Glad it's helped you Sisters

this is another thread I started as I'm not tremendously happy with the way we diagnose & treat in this country

This thread is enlightening. Please post us updates. Is native D different from D3? My supplement is D3 oil caps. Am I needing other forms too or will that cover me?

I have some Calcium and Vitamin D tablets (all in one) - it says the Vitamin D is 5 ug (can't write the u the other way around!) and the calcium is 800 mg.

How many of these should I take? I get no sunlight!

imperial 5ug. means. 5 micrograms. That is 5 millionths of a gram.

That is equivalent to 200 IU, (International units).

The current recommended daily allowance ( RDA) in the UK is 400 IU , that is 10 micrograms.

So each one of your tablets contains half the RDA. for an adult. Which is actually a small amount when compared to the treatments and prescriptions you will see mentioned on here.

How much you take really depends upon what you are trying to do,  have you had a vit d test, ?  Do you know your level, and do you know what level you are aiming for.?  Do you have any problems which may be attributed to vit d deficiency.

Many people in this country have levels between about 30 and 60. Some more some less. If you want to raise your level, then ,if you have an average response, then if you take 1000. IU per day, then your blood level will go up by. 25 . Many vitamin d researchers recommend a blood level of 100 or a bit more., to achieve this you may be likely to need 2000. to 3000. IU per day, on a continuing basis. This very much depends upon your current level.

Please be aware that you should not take lots of calcium tablets that you have. Probably 2 maximum per day, unless specifically advised to take more calcium by your doctor. To get additional vitamin d, it is probably best to get a vitamin d tablet. I know that Asda do. 1000 IU tablets. Or. many people get gel caps from Amazon, they seem to be very cost effective. It is most advisable to take a daily dose, rather than extra big doses every few days or longer.

I hope this is helpful to you. Best of luck

BTBH

I take this

one spray one day & 2 sprays the other day

I also need to find a non-dairy calcium.....but I'm struggling

My vitD levels came back at 25 and I was prescribed 50,000ug once a week for 6 weeks. I'm 3 weeks in to taking them (and not seeing any difference in any symptoms tbh) and have a rheumatology appointment just after I'm due to finish the course. Given that a lot of the symptoms for my HMS and CFS mimic those of depleted VitD, would it be worth getting my levels retested at the GPs in between finishing the course and seeing the consultant? I had my results back within 2 days for the last one and have no reason to suspect that any retest would take any longer.

Would it also be a good idea to take a daily, lower dose of around 1-2,000ug between the weekly 50,000ug? I don't fare well in winter with my dodgy joints so I spent as much time outside as possible from spring to autumn and have no doubt that I am regularly getting or exceeding the recommended amount of unobstructed sunlight. I don't have any absorbtion problems that I know about so with all that, tbh I would've expected to see my levels rising and feeling some benefit from that by now.

diamonds and pears Sorry if I wasn't clear above. VitaminD3 , is what you make in your skin from sunlight (UVB). It is what I called native vitamin d. It is exactly the same as in tablets and gel caps .ie. vitaminD3

After a short time in your body, that compound enters your bloodstream, and passes through your liver. In you liver , vitaminD3 is converted into 25hydroxyD3, it is this compound which is the storage form,in your blood. It is this compound which is measured in blood tests, it is a good marker, to enable the doctor to know what your likely vitamin d status is.

Before vitaminD3  gets converted to  25hydroxyD3,  it is travelling round your body, and is used by your cells for certain processes.  One of these processes is to put vitaminD3 into your milk for baby.  The storage form 25hydroxyD3 is not passed in the milk. It is passed in the placenta, hence baby is born with a blood level about 60 or 70 %  of the mothers blood level.

The autocrine system takes the native vitamin d and converts it to its hormone form within the cell, using it to read genes within that cell.That is why you should have vitamin d frequently , so that the native vitamin d is available to the autocrine system.

So,    there is no need to have other forms of vit d3,   what you take will do just fine. your body takes care of it !

BTBH

This is very interesting. Thanks for raising the question, SistersofPercy, and for the info, BTBH.

I don't go out very much, and it's even worse in summer when it's so humid. I don't like the sun, because I just burn rather than tan. I've always been prone to feeling tired and depressed/anxious.

I do have some vit d tablets but I haven't been taking them regularly, but I will now. And I'll do that vit d test you suggested, BTBH.

Interestingly, there's another thread in General Health that recommends that people check their own blood test results: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2428831-A-word-of-warning-check-your-own-blood-results and low vit d is implicated in some cases. I'm due for a review with my GP later in the year and I'll ask for printouts of my last couple of blood test results. I know, from working in my local hospital, that lab test results highlight what results are outside the "normal" parameters, and busy practitioners can sometimes just look for those. But there's always the possibility that results that are only just within the parameters don't get noticed. I don't think my blood tests included vit d, but I'll do the test and if it shows low vit d then I can talk to my GP about that.

BTBH is it ok to ask a couple of questions? Thank you for all the advice. It's really helpful.

Just want to check this is right, if I take 4000ug my levels should rise by 100?

Is it possible to take too much?

I have had CFS/ME for the past year and really do think vitamin D (and B12) could help. Hoping so anyway. I do have my results which are in the labs 'normal' parameters but recall they were at the lower end of normal. (Don't have them right here atm.)