Vitimin D, can it have this effect?

[SistersofPercy]

We had a discussion over on AIBU last week about being pale and someone mentioned vitamin D if you don't get in the sun much. Now, I don't go out a great deal it has to be said and if I do I avoid sunlight.

I have Hypermobility and scoliosis so take 30/500 codeine, Diazepam and Nortryptilene daily for this. It's tended to leave me pretty lifeless as well as the painkillers affecting my bowels (TMI, apologies)

Anyway, just over a week ago I started to take vitamin D supplements. This week my bowels are as normal and regular as they were before the painkillers, my joints are a lot less clicky and I have double the energy. I've been in the garden all morning, pottering and moving plants around etc, something I've put off for the last 4 months because I didn't have the energy.

Whats going on here? Have I found something I was lacking with the Vit D or am I just having a good week lol

Just wanted to add, still feeling bloody marvellous! DD has now started taking her course though not had chance to ask her if she's seeing any difference yet

I coincidentally bought D3 from Holland and Barrett myself recently..I bought it after reading it can be good for psoriasis. For the first time in years it's clearing up. Nothing else apart from sunshine has worked.

ihearttc In answer to your question, could lower than optimal levels of vitamin d be causing the symptoms you describe. The answer is yes. That does not mean that is definitely the cause. You may have other issues as well. However, since it could be the cause, and the remedy is so easy to pursue then to my mind it makes sense to find out if you are deficient,then put it right. If that helps - fantastic, if not then at least you have eliminated one possible reason, and in the process you will have undoubtedly helped promote your health in other areas.

Your consultant was wrong to assume that a holiday months ago will automatically mean you do not have issues with vit d. A sudden glut of vit d, say from intense sun for a fortnight, will probably lead to a big increase in the storage form of vitamin d , in the blood. That is 25 hydroxyD3, which will then slowly decline over a couple of months to about half the level initially achieved, over the next two months you level will again half, eventually settling to your long term average. It is the long term average that counts, for your long term health. Your long term average depends upon your normal lifestyle,sun,supplements and food. Now you cannot get much vit d from food. (see my earlier posts).

The other issue, is that of native vit d, ie. before it gets converted to storage form. That compound is also used by your cells, in what is called an autocrine system. If you are in a low vit d state, then your body will convert native vitamin d into storage form, as quickly as possible, reducing the amount available to the autocrine system. All cells have receptors for vit d, they need it to transcribe genes to build the products of those cells, just one example is the gene to build the protein to convert tryptophan to serotonin. If a lower than optimal amount of native vitamin d is available to those cells, then you may not make enough serotonin, as demanded of those cells by signals of other brain chemical signals. With serotonin, you feel good, without sufficient, you feel not so good. While you were in intense sunlight, your native vit d would have been high, but, the native form would quickly be converted once you were out of the sun, I.e. within a few days. A regular supply of vitamin d is required by the body to ensure the autocrine system works properly. See my other post explaining this in terms of lactation, another example of native vitamin d being used by the body.
Sorry to be so long winded about it, the upshot is, yes get a test, even if your level is 50 or more, that is measuring the storage form. That holiday complicates matters a little bit, but bearing in mind your symptoms, it probably makes sense to take a regular supplement of several thousand IU daily over many months, try and keep your measured level over 100, constantly. Also try and eat a good diet containing all the other nutrients, calcium, magnesium , protein, which helps rebuild bones etc.

Good luck

BTBH

bottleofbeer Great to hear vit d is working for you.

Vit d has antiproliferative properties.

As explained above, in your case the autocrine system appears to have used the native D, within the psoriatic cells, converting it to the hormone form, thus turning off the proliferation genes. Incidentally this mechanism was first thought of by the vit d researcher Prof Holick, he added vit d hormone (1,25 ) to Vaseline, and tried it on severe psoriasis, it worked. Pharmaceutical companies now have a product that mimics this vit d action. Your body makes it for free , from sunshine, or from the supplement you may take. Psoriasis sufferers should very seriously consider the benefits of sunshine/UVB. or supplementation with daily vit d, to help with their condition. As before, you are looking for a level of 100 and above. Obviously , consult your dermatologist.

I've never been referred to a dermatologist. I've basically coped on my own with the odd script for steroids. What does would you recommend?

Dose*

Can I ask which is the best Vit B supplement to take?
I'm taking the spray one, but wonder if anyone has a good tablet as well?

I was tested for Vit B back in February and it was off the scale - as in non existent- and I took a mega supplement for about a month, and now am spraying most days.

I'm wondering if a two pronged approach is better absorption wise?

I am certainly feeling better. But not as well as I was.

Just came across this, I do know that in some countries they take it routinely for babies.

Thank you thats incredibly helpful Better. Can I just ask when I get my results later in the week what sort of 'number' would indicate that my levels are depleted? We went on holiday the last week in May so almost 2 months ago now.

can it make these symptoms

tired all the time
depression
bowel problems
brain fog
anxiety
rash
aching joints
tempriture changes

to name a few

I just came onto the health board to ask about vit D and found this thread! I hope nobody minds if I ask a question:
I have just been diagnosed Vit D deficient after a blood test as part of an investigation into joint pain and inflammation that I am suffering with. My GP has prescribed a supplement.
My concern is that I don't know how long I've been deficient. 2 years ago I was pregnant and last year I was breastfeeding DD, I stopped in April when she was 11 months. Could this have caused the deficiency? If I was deficient could DD also be deficient? Should I be getting a supplement for her in case?
Now I've read all this I think the supplement might help me with a few problems like lack of energy so that's good.

Hmm interesting thread, would vitamin D help with PMS?

This year i have really struggled with tiredness, nausea, anxiety, feeling low, memory problems, IBS and headaches (much the same as 43mumof2) all the symptoms get much much worse around the time of my period.

Going to try and see the Dr this week and will mention vitamin D I think, was also wondering about b12 deficiency!

What would a healthy vitamin D level be?

This is very interesting information and thank you for that, but you do seem very invested in this, Bettertobehealthy. Please could you declare your interest...are you involved with any of the organisations you link to?

sellk I am not linked to any organisation, I have no commercial interest in Vit D.

I am very interested in it, and have been researching for nearly 4 years, after I was diagnosed with very low levels. The information I gleaned has led me to understand the vital importance for human health. There are a few thousand people around the world who grasp the overall picture, now thousands of research papers are published every year. By combining the understanding/knowledge held in such diverse fields as evolutionary biology ,physics,biochemistry,molecular biology etc a fuller understanding is emerging worldwide. I am simply trying to impart that knowledge, in the hope that I may help others on this board. Hopefully you will see I have tried to give a rationale behind any recommendations I may have given. See my posts overall on here, to get a good picture.

BTBH

Better I checked my multivitamin this morning and it says it contains 100% rda of vitamin D3? Should that cover it?

I am going to ask the Dr about having my levels checked though as have not felt 100% right all this year.

girlie friend In the. UK, the RDA is 400 IU, that is 10 micrograms, per day.

Other countries have differing rdas. USA, 600, Norway 800, Italy 1000. You can see there is disagreement. In asda I believe their own brand d3 tablets are 1000IU'
Recommended daily.

With the kind of symptoms you are talking about, there is a definite possibility that you are deficient,  that might be the cause of you problems. However, having those tests is a really good idea, there may be different causes, or a combination of causes.   
if a deficiency is found, then  try to replace what is missing.  If you need vitamin d, then  

1000 IU. will raise your level by. 25 mol/l . ( on average )

You will see that I advocate a blood level over the long term of 100 mol/l, pref.
about 120 -140. See my other posts. let's say your level is measured at 40, then if you take 3000 - 4000 IU. Then you will be in that area. Remember, a daily dose is important, rather than weekly. Get some sensible sun exposure as well. Leave off the sunscreen for 20 mins.Never burn. Vitamin d is one of several essential micronutrients, a shortage of any will cause a dysfunction,more or less severe, either long latency or in the short term. That is why it is important to try to have a good diet, which should include dark green leafy veg as well as other veg and some fruit.

So, the UK. RDA tablets will not significantly raise your blood level, only 10 mol/l . If your doctor does those tests and finds deficiencies, then hopefully he will prescribe the necessary remedy. But do bear in mind a short course, say 3 months, then nothing more is liable to leave you in the same position 6 months down the line. At least from the vit d point of view.

It now depends upon your tests !.

Good luck ,

BTBH

pointless fan It is unlikely that b/f -ing caused your deficiency. The test you had measures the blood storage form of vit d, called 25hydroxyD3, this storage form is not transferred in milk. Native vit d, is transferred. See my earlier posts about this.

Should you supplement your child. The UK guidelines are that you should supplement with 300 IU. From the age of 6 months. In the USA, they recommended 400 IU. From birth , that is for breast fed babies. Formula fed babies will be receiving their vit d, in the formula. Have a good look round the vitamindassociation website, They have done a good job of describing what the current recommendations are.

Hope this helps.

BTBH

bottleofbeer If you are trying to cure a condition, then, to my mind , it makes sense to have your level measured, then raise your blood level to around the 140 mol/l. Without knowing your starting level, then you would just be guessing. If you have already found that a daily dose helps, then it seems like you are on the right track !

A daily dose of D3, between 2000. And 5000 IU , would most likely be the outcome from your test, I would have thought.. Keep your level up for the long term, You can get a blood spot test here, vitamindtest.org.uk. . It costs £28. This is an NHS laboratory, they will test for the general public.. Bear in mind , their result will say that 50 is sufficient, that is predicated on bone health, for additional benefits you most likely need a higher level, as I have explained, here and in my previous posts on mumsnet.

Best of luck, let us know how you get on.

BTBH

I should cocoa Most people will have no trouble absorbing D3 in capsule form. For. Instance. Gel caps from Amazon.So, in theory you should be perfectly OK with them. However, some people do have absorption problems. Vit d is fat soluble, if you have had your gall bladder out, this may cause a reduction in absorption, also other gut maladies could possibly have the same effect.

More than likely you do not need to take 2 different supplements. However if you test your blood level after 3 months say, it should be at approx your equilibrium level, if it is not where you expect, then you may well have absorption problems. Don,t forget, some sunshine is a really good way to get vit d as well. Never burn. Sun between. 10. And. 3. In the summer months, for 20 mins will make lots of vit d. Leave off sunscreen for those 20 mins, because sunscreen stops vitamin d production.

Hope this helps

BTBH

Better i have had my gallbladder out! Would that affect my vitamin D levels?

I have a Drs appointment for today at 11.10am so am def going to talk about vitamin D with her!

Being out in the sun could also have had this effect on you, if you were not covered up....

When I was really low on vitamin d, severe vit d deficiency diagnosed by doctor, I had super strenght vitamin d, but I also have a sister in the canaries, so went to see her for for february half term. I felt brilliant while I was in the sun, but felt terrible again when I returned to London. So, I went back to her in March, and stayed until after Easter. (my vitamin d dose was 60.000 IU a week for 12 weeks)

Now my vit d is up to normal, I still have much more energy if I have been outdoors getting sun on my body.

My sister has fibromyalgia, and scoliosis, even though she lived in the canaries, she kept out of the sun and in the shade. When I was there, she was out in the sun with me, and her health improved a lot too in the weeks I was there! She realized it was not just the warmer climate that was necessary for her joints and muscles to be well, but exposure to sun light!

Its funny though as I don't like being in the sun, I worry about burning and do burn fairly easily plus concerns over skin cancer....

Mind you not much chance to sit in the sun today - its tipping it down here!!