Some reasons why vaccination should be questioned.

[Spidermama]

This isn't meant to cause a flare up but rather to put wome points across which rarely get aired in the usual run of things....

1. Micro-organisms (bacteria, viruses, fungi, parasites) do NOT cause diseases. They aid the cleaning-up process of healing.

1. Most micro-organisms associated with seriuos illnesses live within healthy people without causing any symptoms at all.

1. All so-called infectious diseases are the result of a toxic condition within the organ of the whole body (i.e. dis-ease.) The symptoms relate to the elimination effort by the body to return back to health.

1. Susceptibility to disease depends solely on the state of health of the body, NOT on the exposure to micro-organisms.

1. Natural immunity is not disease-specific; one does not need to have come in touch with all diseases in order to gain immunity against them.

1. The presence of antibodies is NOT an indication of immunity. They are only a small part of the blood immune response.

1. No vaccine containing 'pure' micro-organisms elicits an immune response. Only when a toxin is added to the vaccine does the body respond to it.

1. An unvaccinated child is NOT an unprotected child; it still has its natural immunity. Besides, trying to protect from soemthing that is not the cause is inappropriate.

1. The Lancet (12 Jan 1980) reported that the BCG vaccine, against TB, showed no evidence of protection but rtahter an increase in cases of TB.

10. Government statistics shwo that death rates of ALL infectious diseases have drastically fallen BEFORE the introduction of specific vaccinations. (Smallpox deaths rose by approx 275% immediately after the smallpox vaccination was enforced.)

HOWEVER... if you believe that vaccination gives you protection against infectious diseases, then it should not matter to you whether somebody else has been vaccinated or not.

(Compiled by Patrick Quanten, MD. Independent Health Advisor.)

Yeah, that flu was a really mean one - unlike normal flu, it killed a lot of very healthy people in their prime.

expat, dh has native american ancestry too (although much further back)

Oooh, bundle, who says that? Is there new evidence? All the bits I've read said it was unclear. Certianly syphillis came as a shock to the immune systems of North Americans, iirc. But it did appear, worldwide, very soon after the Americas were discovered.

The first wave was even more virulent and nasty than later waves, which is the normal way of these things ...

MB- I agree, there are loads of traditional practices that are medically dangerous like the one you mentioned
Just because it's 'natural' doesn't mean it is safe.
And just because it's scientifically developed by pharmaceutical scientists, it doesn't mean that it's necessarily dodgy ( far from it in most cases!)

"Who on earth would spend money researching something that potentially loses big pharma so much money??"

Oh God, yet another conspiracy theory often put forward by proponents or supporters of quackery. Yawn!!.

Anyway why do quacks not criticise others of their ilk?. Scientists hold up their work for scruteny, why don't quacks do the same?. Is it because ultimately their work does nor carry any substance?.

But sophable you said your lovely homeopath believes thatt all vaccinated children are damaged

NQC, "The Pox: The Life and Near Death of a Very Social Disease" by Kevin Brown. sort of says the same, but implies that the strain from LatAm was much more virulent. Would you like a copy? I have a spare

bluejelly - at low level, remember

bundle, I'd love a copy! We went through a big (household) craze with virus books, a few years back, but haven't read any good ones in ages.

bluejelly which bit of 'most are low-level damaged' didn't you understand???

Smallpox wiped out HUGE numbers of native Americans and indigenous peoples' when the new world was 'discovered'. In some areas, it truly extinguished the native populations - particularly w/regard to the islands in Caribbean.

Syphillis was rampant through Europe long before the New World was colonised.

I think you might be thinking of smallpox, which the Spaniards brought from Europe.

True, however at a cost now of £1000,000,000 per drug to market they put a shed load of cash into trying to make them as 'safe' as possible. because if they fuck it up, they have to withr=draw the drug and pay out oodles in compensation (rightly). And big pharma likes to keep its money

Only 1 in 3 drugs on the market get back their development costs, the last thing they want is litigation, so they do their best. Not cos they are angelic, because it is the best way to keep the money they make

Wheras there is no comparable testing into 'traditional' areas of treatment.

I believe that both should be tested as much as possible. Don't you?

I'm not saying big pharma are sainly, far from it, but neither do they play fast and loose with our health, they can't afford to!

NQC it's v readable, but with chunks of science and lots of social history. let me check to see if i have your address with me.

put another way that the vaccinations have impacted their bodies in ways other than just producing antibodies for the particular disease which they are being vaccinated against.

it doesn't seem such a wildly mad proposition to me (that a baby of a month old being injected with both the antibodies and the preservatives etc etc etc used in vacciness might affected adversely, if most of the time subtly by that)...but perhaps it is.

yes I agree about the "everything is funded by the big pharmaceutical companies and so everyone in the medical profession keeps quiet" argument.
that's a load of old baloney, isn't it?
all doctors are not patsies. just as all doctors are not gods.
I simply refuse to believe that all doctors close their eyes to evidence and logic because they are influenced by pharmaceutical companies/government.
that is simply illogical and unbelievable imo.
I am also slightly exasperated by the view that people who seek to rely on conventional medicine therefore have blind faith in all medicine and all science, and vice versa. I have an open mind about a lot of things, and medicine is one of them. I am not deluded or misguided into thinking all doctors are gods. I do exercise some judgment of my own.

(NQC any chance I could sneak a peek after you've read it? They give me access to the second biggest library in the country then don't give me time to go there [grrr]...)

mb that also means that if adverse effects are discovered and there is only anecdotal evidence, then there will be a huge amount of effort expended to prevent the drug being withdrawn, given the amounts involved. doesn't it?

EIS, hmm, Wikipedia says some think syphilis has been in Europe forever, but others say it came from the Americas cite . Certainly I'd heard it was new around the time "we" "discovered" the Americas - certainly it was very virulent then, which is typical of a disease new to a population.

Sure, MrsB, happy to pass things along.

Ok sophable maybe me and dd are both lucky. The thing is I know loads of kids and adults who were vaccinated who can also breath through their noses.

( CALL OUT TO ANYONE WHO CAN'T BREATH THROUGH THEIR NOSES-- PLEASE GET IN TOUCH)

Even if it was a problem ( which I have to admit I am about), I would rather not be able to breath through my nose than die of measles, diptheria, smallpox etc

This is the virus book that got us hooked. Really really readable, very interesting. Does make you a bit twitchy about hantavirii, though. If one of them gets airborne transmission working, we're all stuffed.

Syphilis was being treated in Europe w/high doses of mercury in the latter half of the 16th century. Mary, Queen of Scots' second husband took this treatment for it.

It was referred to as the French pox in some quarters.

expat, the whole book is about syphilis(with a little gonorrhoea thrown in) and the idea that it was a new disease (proposed by fernandez de oviedo in 1525 and supported by ruy diaz de isla in 1539) does seem powerful because of the dates, but obv am willing to bow to superior knowledge

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