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Back Pain and Internet Shopping. Thread Number 5.

999 replies

PavlovtheCat · 07/10/2014 21:39

Those who have long term back problems know that the best way to help manage back pain is to internet shop for shoes, bags, and back support devices. Those who are new to back pain, these are important lessons to learn.

And here within this thread is where you will learn those lessons.

You will also find other helpful advice on pain management, different treatment options from hydrotherapy and physio to surgery, experiences of others navigating the big and scary medical world, both private and NHS (and abroad from the UK) too, as well as issues around work, being a parent while managing pain and disability, and the impact on the relationships around us.

Between us all, we have a huge wealth of knowledge and experience, and more than the practical advice, the jargon and information, we know what back pain is like, how much is affects everything around us, and sometimes, all we need is to have people listen who Get It.

We talk painkillers regularly, have hot water bottles and wheat bags galore, and hold hands a lot. It's potentially all very Unmumsnetty as we do actually show some lovin' from time to time, although we Never Ever call each other hun.

If you have advice, need advice, need a hand to hold, want to do some shopping, then come in. We are friendly. We talk a lot. Come in, have a Brew and say hello

You will see just how much we do talk if you read our previous threads (where you may glean lots of answers about pain relief, surgery etc, best winter boots etc):
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2049637-Back-Again-Back-Pain-Support-Thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1871592-The-Back-Story
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1992406-The-Back-Story-Continues
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2023274-More-Terrible-Back-Stories

OP posts:
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MulledWineMincePie · 08/12/2014 22:40

ins was it - gabapentin/pregabalin/amytriptyline that you were given? if so, you can take those with tramadol, they won't help with muscle/tendon/ligament/etc pain, they only address nerve pain, so if you have a combination of causes of pain, then you can/should continue to take regular painkillers. (If it's something else other than any of those meds above, I might be wrong about taking tramadol etc alongside). If it is one of those above, they do have strong side effects, which most people adjust to after a few weeks.

Lots of people are on one of those meds above, and can talk you through the side effects, positives of them working etc. I am meant to take them (have tried them all) but I am one of the unlucky ones that doesn't manage the side effects very well. I now am on nortyptiline, but have not started it Blush as scared of the side effects.

the 'brain scramble', also known as neuropathy, is something he should absolutely not be having an opinion on until after your MRI. My pain clinic guy went down this route. My brain was wired incorrectly and misinterpreting pain signals etc etc, due to long term pain and now that pain is gone the brain is fooled into thinking there is still something wrong. And, the pain clinch guy was absolutely completely wrong, as there is clear evidence of nerve compression. Now, I am not saying that it's not true for you, but that he cannot make those decisions without seeing what the MRI shows, and should not be treating you for that potential diagnosis until the MRI results are back and reviewed.

That's not to say the meds he has given you are not the right ones to be taking, but the reasons he has given can't be evidenced without MRI demonstrating no other obvious cause.

Not sure that makes any sense. but it does annoy me when physios try to diagnose, especially without any scan results to base their info on.

TInselaffe · 08/12/2014 22:41
TInselaffe · 08/12/2014 22:46

Sorry pavlov I cross-posted with you. Thank you. I am glad I still have the MRI. A lot of what he said made sense in the sense that it matched my symptoms. I am hopeful it is just that but I am not sure to be honest - the pain between my shoulders is pretty intense so I do suspect the MRI will show something there, just not sure what.

I will retain a healthy dose of scepticism! New drugs are called Amitriptyline and the screen definitely said not with Tramadol (I read over GP's shoulder). I don't have any Tramadol left anyway - only 4 pills as they were only giving me 30 at a time.

MulledWineMincePie · 08/12/2014 22:59

that's very strange, as I happily took 'amy' with tramadol, as do others here, and my 'norty' is a cleaner more expensive version of 'amy', but if course you must follow the guidance of the doc, as that is your medical expert.

denialandpanic · 09/12/2014 07:50

mulled you had already "breached"the forr hour target so technically you had already killed their stats for the day so no reason to rush you out ;) hopefully said mri will be reviewed again and Mr s will be able to access it

denialandpanic · 09/12/2014 07:51

Four hour

MatildaTheRedNosedReinCat · 09/12/2014 08:37

,Ins, I have been taking amytriptiline with tramadol and cocodamol for a very long time. They do totally different things. do not stop long term tramadol so quickly anyway, you should withdraw slowly and amytriptiline takes some weeks to a)build up to a therapeutic level and b) build the dose up. Please speak to someone else. Trouble is' it's easy to believe nice, kind people. Until your scan is reported nobody knows what is wrong and besides, pain is pain and needs treating. Have to go now but I am worried by this Sad

MulledWineMincePie · 09/12/2014 08:54

denial I was thinking more along the lines of it being her home time Wink I was technically 'first' seen by doc within 4 hours, the rest of it was waiting for MRI then to see doc again for results. Does that count as breach still? There little notice said 'current wait to see doctor or en(something) was 3.5-4 hrs), rather than you will be discharged within 4 hours. I wasn't even 'discharged' more sort of 'byeee!' and I saw her for me 2 min review in the nurses staff room as there were no rooms for consultation in the clinical decision unit, where I was. How about that? no private rooms for clinical consultation, in an A&E Grin I chuckled at the absurdity of it all. DH said I fell foul of the technique of making we wait so long I didn't care what was wrong with me as long as I could go home Grin

Anyway. I'm emailing Mr S, and he can decide if he wants to look before surgery and I'll go along with whatever. I am not incontinent or the other way, and she appeared to be concerned only with those two things, no other numbness in my saddle area as an emergency so I shall go with that. I absolutely don't want any surgery before christmas as I still have more cutting in to do Wink Grin

magso · 09/12/2014 10:15

I think the 4 hours limit is to get started not discharged, so you are right Mulled wine. Emailing your specialist is very wise. I hope the news is not bad and does't disrupt your Christmas plans- although the cutting in is not essentials.

LostyTheSnowman · 09/12/2014 10:47

Monthly blood test done and I popped into work and managed to x-ray one of my friends whilst I was there Grin (she was seeing the nurse in minor injuries, not for fun I must point out). Printed off some of my reports to take to new consultant tomorrow so today I am going to make a list of exactly what is wrong with different bits of me, this could take some time!

Glad you got your MRI done and reviewed, she wouldn't say she'd shown a neuro radiologist if she hadn't I'm sure. If the scanner was still on they would still be there reporting. Normally operated by specialist radiographers but they work closely with the radiologists to get optimum scans.

frostydom2011 · 09/12/2014 12:48

all sorry to not for individually naming but only have connection on a "smart" phone. Thanks for all your tips and experience. Another sobbing frustration breakdown due to pain and period being back. Totally stupid but I find not being able to wash myself alone and inpprivate awful. And my period Is back as I've stopped breast feeling.

frostydom2011 · 09/12/2014 12:53

I want to talk more to the neurosurgeon. "Disc operation" sounds too bloody vAgue for my liking. I want to ask a second opinion from the back and skeletal specialist hospital where this neuro surgeon doesn't operate. My dad announced he's booked a surprise flight over. For exactly the days I'd be in hospital. That'll learn them to not book flights without checking. I am tringnit to get myself wound up into a massive stressed frightened and angry state. That's not going so well.

frostydom2011 · 09/12/2014 13:34

HAHAHA - breast FEEDING not feeling.

MatildaTheRedNosedReinCat · 09/12/2014 13:52

Ins I should add that I also had that strange hypersensitivity and could cry at the lightest touch. It is weird. The physio was also the one to point that out. this was after my MRI so we knew I had a disc prolapse. From what you say it sounds highly likely you have a lumber spinal injury and the upper back pain is muscular. There are huge muscles running down each side of your spine holding the whole lot together. I, too get weird pains in areas where I have no actual injury. The pain is still real and needs treating. I actually get really Angry with HCPs who tell you their theories so readily when actually only a scan can see what is going on. And after such an accident there could be any number of things. < I am aware I have actually offered an opinion so will give myself a slap>. Anyway, please don't suffer additional pain by stopping the tramadol suddenly and starting the amitriptyline. It won't be nice.Sad sorry, I know that sounds so bossy but I feel worried for you.

Matilda is busily polishing her halo having done massage and Pilates ( once again blocked in the bastards parked illegally in the disabled bays Grin ). I then went to the big M&S I hate but was empty and got lots of Christmassy foods. I then picked up FIL and took him up to MIL's nursing home and attended Sister Dorothy's Coffee Morning ( making small talk with all the old ladies with Altzheimers). MIL is as sharp as a pin, though so loves 'normal' company. Now lying down but determined to do more kitchen sorting. New kitchen is very different storage-wise so needs planning. Work top on Thursday, yay! Can't wait to get it all cleaned up. Decorating and splash back can wait until the NY.

Waves to everyone and hoping you are all ok and not overdoing it < stares hard at mulledpavlov>

Frosty, I think you are right to ask for another opinion if you are unsure. Have a list of questions and don't be afraid to push for the best possible surgeon. Sadly,though, anyone honest will tell you that the outcome is never certain and sometimes things can go wrong. However, for the vast majority it is fantastically successful and they never need to come to places like this again.Smile

HollyBerrie · 09/12/2014 14:24

Hellooo Everyone
Well done Matilda on your busy day. I too have been good. I have just about done all the wrapping this afternoon. Trouble is I have not walked the dog but my back is hurting a bit too much for it now after all that work! DH can't do it when he gets home as he has a bad toe and can't walk very well. The Doctor sent him for an Xray yesterday and said it was some sort of artheritisy thing but not to worry as they can replace big toe joints now! Xmas Shock We are a right pair! Dr Berrie thought he had gout! Shows what I know.
I better had try though because DH gets rather pissy if dog has not had adequate walks. We are going to DBs this weekend but the dog walker can only have him until Sunday morning which means we will miss the Christmas dinner DB has planned in order to get back for the dog....Me I'd let the dog wait - he'll be happier in his own home on his own than in kennels somewhere even if he does wee on the floor but DH won't consider it. Xmas Sad

HollyBerrie · 09/12/2014 14:59

Frosty could you go on the pill? I take the mini pill and don't have periods. (Probably too much to think about right now I know)

Soooo the walk - not my best idea of the day. I planned to just go for a short hobble and keep it between the two of us - bribe him with bonoes not to say anything. However, as we got past the rusty gate, we spotted little black, even though you are 8 times the size of me I am still going to try to bite your face off poodle with miserable owner We had to take evasive maneuvers - up the bank - through the brambles - down into a swamp. My wellies have a hole in them... After that we had to go all round the field to get back to the rusty gate. Once back on the road saw new yappy dog and owner who yesterday had told me they too have to come round here because his dog is mental. At least that is what I think he said - our dogs were too busy trying to kill each other to hear properly. Happily I managed to cross the madly pulling - ow! -dog over the road and divert him with a boneo. Unhappily a delivery van then began reversing towards us. Leaping out of the way I hobbled home only to be frightened half to death by said delivery man delivering another bastard thing to wrap! bah Humbug! Xmas Grin

LoonvanBoon · 09/12/2014 15:02

Ooh, just trying to catch up with all the news here. Should be doing online tesco groceries order but meh to that. Still no inspiration for a festive name-change either.

Starting on the totally non back-related stuff: Berrie, since when have they been able to do big toe joint replacements? Please interrogate your DH when he comes in (& has walked the dog, of course) as to exactly what the Dr. said. I have big toe arthritis in both big toes, left one is worse, & after seeing toe / foot consultant a couple of years ago I thought the options weren't great. Steroid injections (why am I not chomping at the bit there?) & fusing the toe joints together. Will be excited if this is true as mine's not getting any better.

Tell your DH that stiff-soled shoes / boots really help, if he doesn't already wear them. Fitflops are brilliant but I can see that might not go down too well. Grin I wear them round the house (with socks in Winter - I'm dead stylish) as they make such a difference. Unless it's actually all the back drugs that help & the toes are really no better. Hmmm....

Well done for getting to A&E & getting checked out, mulledpavlov. I'm a bit confused about the nervey thing too. Do your bulging discs press on the nerve roots to the sides, as they exit the thecal sac? Mine does 'cause that's where the disc bulges, so I know I'm not at risk of cauda equina syndrome. But I thought a central bulge (& yours are, aren't they?) was by definition bulging on to the central bunch of nerves going down to the cauda equina. Hope you're okay today & the drugs helped last night.

Frostydom, I can't quite get my head round the difference in your treatment from what the NHS tends to offer. I never had a discectomy - hope that was the right decision in my case, but hard to know. Read loads & loads when I was offered one back in the Spring, though, & yes, the best results are certainly associated with large, central prolapses, treated fairly swiftly before nerve inflammation becomes chronic, & where the pain is around 75%+ leg-based. If the disc is otherwise healthy, with just a single, small tear in the wall, then apparently that's even better. Still never an easy decision, I know. I'm sure excellent aftercare must be a positive factor, & it certainly sounds as if you would get that.

Tinselaffe, I'm also very Hmm about the idea that coming straight off all pain-killers & relying on amitryptilline alone is going to sort out your pain. Nerve-drugs are usually an addition to an existing meds. regime. I guess if they seem spectacularly successful, then you could cut down on other stuff, but they all take time to start working. Don't know about all the drugs combinations, but my consultant suggested ami to me & he knows I'm on co-codamol. It may take a while to get used to side-effects with it, too. When I tried ami it wiped me out more than any drug I've ever taken, but that might just be me.

I've seen the GP this morning. She's lovely but it was kind of depressing. She's got the letter back from the consultant, I need to see this as a chronic condition now & be prepared to take the medications to keep active. I can keep all my drugs on repeat, keep experimenting to find the best combo, & restart pregabalin any time I need to. She said the local Pain Clinic won't have anything to offer other than drugs & injections, so unless I want to go for an epidural now, it might be better to keep that option back. I don't want an epidural, so I'm not going to be referred ATM.

Lots of pain again, including the lower right leg pain sitting down in the Carol Service last night. It's freezing cold here & I'm not feeling very cheerful! Trying to resist the stollen bites in the kitchen, as they contain an unfeasible number of calories.

LoonvanBoon · 09/12/2014 15:05

Yikes, berrie, that was quite a walk! Think I'll try & get out again (no dog to take, sadly) before the boys get home. The cat keeps following me up the street though, & leaping out of other people's gardens to pounce on my legs. Grin

HollyBerrie · 09/12/2014 15:34

You can have mine!Xmas Hmm
Will question DH about what Dr actually said about toe joint. He likened it to the hip replacement apparently I remember. Thanks for the advice. He is wearing no shoes at work at the moment.Smile

magiandco · 09/12/2014 16:44

'Twirls' Got there eventually. All my choices had gone so settled for this- definitely NOT witty enough for mulledpavlova's DH. Like you Berrie I could not remember my password - took a few days to remember.
Gosh every one has been busy! Your post Frostydom got me wondering if surgery is more successful if there is good aftercare (as there broadly isn't in the NHS). My 2 friends who have done very well following surgery both had private health insurance and therefore better support. Probably just a coincidence? The German system sounds even better than private here since it comes with physiotherapy.
Berrie that sounds like a long walk. Hope you enjoyed it at least a little despite being dragged through bramble Xmas Grin.
Tinselaffe I was also given amitrytaline whilst known to be using co-codamol. They do seem to have different actions, and the ami took ages to help. Ami is used in much higher doses as a tricyclic antidepressant so maybe in those higher doses it shouldn't be mixed. Only a guess mind. Best to double check with the doctor - or pharmacist.
Its chilly today and my 'good' leg is complaining today- whilst my regular awkward leg is magically quieter! I don't know if its the new cushion (perhaps spreading the pain around more evenly) or - more likely being pushed and pulled by the specialist yesterday. Loon sorry your news is not better. You must be feeling rather down ((hug)). Agree not a club we would want to be in however nice every one is here.

MatildaTheRedNosedReinCat · 09/12/2014 18:12

Holly your dog is the exact opposite to mine. He tarts himself around the park and runs to greet every single person with a winsome tilt of the head and one raised paw especially if they are carrying treats Xmas Grin Everyone one is greatly flattered and believes they are super favoured. It's good because I am so slow. You should see how he greets my dogwalker (would that be an option? Maybe not for Grumpyboots). He literally does a fanfare woof and hugs her as if they have been parted for a year!

Ok, I've been very stupid. Just so desperate to get the house sorted. It's never just one room is it? Need storage for dishes etc so ended up clearing dining room cupboards, too. OMG, just how do we accumulate so much crap?

So the good news is I have tidy cupboards. And five full bin bags as well as stuff for the charity shop. You will be able to guess the bad news Xmas Sad The big slug of oromorph is kicking in. So frustrating Xmas Angry

Loon, didn't the hospital send you the letter, too? It should happen automatically that you are copied in. I feel the same about invasive treatments. Just no.

Now, lastly I will share my top tip for back friendly wrapping: do it on the ironing board. It's so much easier. And get a wrist band tape dispenser, they are life changingly wonderful. Any other ideas to ease festive strain and pain? Xmas Grin other than alcohol, I know that one!Xmas Wink

MulledWineMincePie · 09/12/2014 18:46

loon re nerve thingy, the disc bulge(s) is central yes, but the nerve is trapped on the exit channels by bone and thickened liagmentum flavum, and that's what is causing the compression this time, not the disc, according to the last scan in April - at two levels L5/S1 and L4/L5. So the good news is that the MRI done in A&E shows that the disc bulge is not touching the spinal cord/cauda equina, from what I have understood, and that the nerve is still compressed on exit by the bone at both levels. It was not explained fully to me and I didn't ask any questions as I was starving and needed coffee so this is what I have presumed. I don't know if the disc has bulged further but not touching, or if it is bulged to the sides and is also compressing the nerves there as well as the bone.

MulledWineMincePie · 09/12/2014 18:50

loon amy wiped me out more than any of the other nerve blockers too. I was actually a gibbering wreck on it, couldn't string a sentence together, forgot what I was doing as soon as I was about to do it, put things in places they didn't live and then not remember I had done it, my voice was slower, and I was not able to drive the car as I lost peripheral vision on the left side.

However, on the plus side, it was the best medication I have taken for nerve pain, sorted it out beautifully for the time I was on it and for a good couple of months afterwards before it wore off, such a shame I couldn't continue on it.

So if the side effects can be worked through (not everyone gets them as badly as I do), it's a potentially good medicine.

TInselaffe · 09/12/2014 18:57

Just read all your responses had a little self pity cry. I didn't take any Tramadol today so that I could get started on the nerve meds sooner (they say I can still take parac. and ibu., which have done nothing for me today) . I am in agony. All day. I had an all day meeting it was too late to cancel. I know everyone there v well and only five of us so I spent the meeting pacing, sitting, kneeling, standing and it made no difference. Everything hurts so much I feel actively nauseous. 3 hour train journey there (0640) and three hour train journey back (just got in).

I can't believe this could have been unnecessary. I could have been less of a martyr and had 1 Tramadol (had only 2 yesterday as was running low - I have 4 left) but figured it was only prolonging the inevitable and as I have been needed 4 then 1 wasn't going to do anything. Everything hurts in a way I could never have imagined. Even my clothes hurt - you are right, can't remember who, saying the slightest touch makes everything jangle. So there's the actual back pain and then all my skin just feels hyper hyper hyper overalert. From my shoulders, arms, fingers (it hurts to fucking type) down to my toes, which get stabby pains in them) I am just overwhelmed.

I am worried the Ami-whatsit on't be strong enough as read the leaflet and it talks about much higher doses than the one prescribed. She said come back in 2 weeks if it's not enough once I've upped it to 20mg. I am meant to be on the 0630 train tomorrow morning. Can't do it if the Ami thing doesn't kick in... won't know that until I wake up, which is too late to say I'nm not coming in - i have back to back meetings with external people tomorrow.

I just need to get through tomorrow and Thursday and then I can take Friday off as the meeting has been cancelled.

freedom Your update stood out - nothing to say except As DP likes to say "one fine day" this will all be over.

I just can't believe that one drunk driver, who just didn't care at all what he had done, can cause this much damage. I was doing so well in my career - I received two bonuses this year (unheard of), am the youngest person in my particular job nationally by about a decade... had achieved so many things in the two years since I went from being long term unemployed (6 months) to landing this job, which I love so much and now I can barely keep up with the day to day stuff. And there's no end in sight at the moment. And I can see people consciously not including me in things, getting me to take a back seat, which I should for my health but it's so hard. Why should my career and life and plans with DP suffer because of one drunken stupid fucking idiot? Who has done it before and will do it again.

HollyBerrie · 09/12/2014 19:01

He is booked in with the dog walker but she is taking a flight at 2pm so needs to drop him back in the morning. I asked my Dad to bring the dog down (he is joining us at DB's for lunch) but for some reason he has declined! Xmas Hmm I don't know what he thinks is wrong with my dog!Xmas Grin I've emailed the kennels - though that will cost us quite a lot because it would be Thursday to Monday morning due to opening hours but I think they will be rammed this time of year.
I am trying not to feel mardy with DH and now my Dad... I don't get many festive meals cooked for me - usually I DO THEM ALL!