Back Pain and Internet Shopping. Thread Number 5.

[PavlovtheCat]

Those who have long term back problems know that the best way to help manage back pain is to internet shop for shoes, bags, and back support devices. Those who are new to back pain, these are important lessons to learn.

And here within this thread is where you will learn those lessons.

You will also find other helpful advice on pain management, different treatment options from hydrotherapy and physio to surgery, experiences of others navigating the big and scary medical world, both private and NHS (and abroad from the UK) too, as well as issues around work, being a parent while managing pain and disability, and the impact on the relationships around us.

Between us all, we have a huge wealth of knowledge and experience, and more than the practical advice, the jargon and information, we know what back pain is like, how much is affects everything around us, and sometimes, all we need is to have people listen who Get It.

We talk painkillers regularly, have hot water bottles and wheat bags galore, and hold hands a lot. It's potentially all very Unmumsnetty as we do actually show some lovin' from time to time, although we Never Ever call each other hun.

If you have advice, need advice, need a hand to hold, want to do some shopping, then come in. We are friendly. We talk a lot. Come in, have a and say hello

You will see just how much we do talk if you read our previous threads (where you may glean lots of answers about pain relief, surgery etc, best winter boots etc):
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2049637-Back-Again-Back-Pain-Support-Thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1871592-The-Back-Story
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1992406-The-Back-Story-Continues
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2023274-More-Terrible-Back-Stories

X-posted with you, matilda. Really hope it eases up ASAP - hopefully if the drugs don't do the job, the wine will (or a combination). Hope you manage to have a good evening after your shitty week.

Yes, the disc had a tear right across it and the contents had squashed out and compressed the spinal canal and affected the S1 nerve roots too. Surprisingly less painful than the consultant thought I'd be in - more sensation change, numbness and tingling down the leg and into the foot.
I can remember going to wipe myself after going to the loo and I couldn't feel myself. I had no idea this was an emergency - I went on for weeks like it until the MRI

Really unfair ( as life is) Matilda. Hope you somehow manage an enjoyable evening despite it all.
With regard to upper back pain, as long as I am not locked up ( which is horrid as its painful to breath, never mind move) I have a fairly powerful handheld thumpy percussive massager, which does help. I guess you would have to be careful using it near a disc problem, but away from injuries it is helpful. I can sometimes unlock myself ( if only a single facet joint has locked up again) by doing sit ups over a rolled towel at the locked joint (after lots of pain meds!). But usually I need help from the chiropractor. My upper back issues preceded my lower back difficulties, which I guess is different to many of you. My old chiropractor used to use a percussive massager thing ( I don't know what they are called) before trying to unlock me, but I think they have fallen out of use because they don't give long term help - I suppose like massage. However - anything that helps with pain reduction (even if its not the major cause) on a day to day basis is helpful in my book.

Matilda I have been told about pip benefit, but I dont think I would be entitledas I am not as bad as some of you, and I already ssp from my job, think I runs out in january next year. Not sure if I am entitled to anything else, what are your thoughts.
my sister has mentioned about seeing dirty dancing at Milton keynrs theatre 22nd oct, but I am reluctant to book in case I am bad again. I live in northampton and she livesin Worcestershire so she would stay over, but at fifty pound a ticket I am reluctant, although it is my fav film, I likedpatrick swayze.

Oh matilda hope you were ok last night? Did you cancel?

Nope, I didn't cancel and had a nice evening. Wine acted as quite a good analgesic. It was a bunch of friends I only see a few times a year and it's quite nice of them to keep including me in their group so I wanted to host for once. They were fab and did all the drinks, carrying and clearing up. I was almost embarrassed about it but they all had a good time, I think.

Pink,after your ssp stops you can claim Contribution based ESA. You can apply over the phone and then a form to fill in plus doctors sick note. It was the only benefit I applied for that I actually received without much hassle at all. It would be very obvious that you would be unfit to work as a carer so you should be ok. At that point I was still on half pay but had run out of ssp but it was still paid. I got it for the full year and was very grateful.

Loon, explaining AT is quite hard. The lying down is really the only thing that you 'do'. It's all about losing unnecessary tension. So you think much more about how you do everyday things and see if there is an easier way. Ie the way you bend down to pick something up, sit down, stand up. You are also supposed to give yourself directions. These are 'allow or let your neck be free, let your back be long and wide and let your head sit in the right position ( or words to that effect). Basically reminding yourself to loosen up and be mindful of thinking for a second before doing things then choosing the best way. Hope that makes a tiny bit of sense. You really need some one to one sessions. It helps me though it is really quite hard to keep remembering and actually living AT. A way of life is how it should be.

Hope you are all having a good day.

Matilda what is the esa payment, is it same amount ad ssp or less. Gladyou had a nice night, I had a house full of kids as my house seems to be open door for kids in the street, weekends are always like that here, it isnt always returned though. We got a puppy two weeks ago as well, so he is keeping me on my toes. I justwish I could get rid of the nerve thigh pain.

ESA is about £70/ week.

Puppy sounds like hard work. I got really stressed when we got ours even though he was adorable and I'd longed for a dog. Are you still taking the gabapentin? If not, please do give it a fair trial because for nerve pain it really does help. I'm switching over to pregablin right now and the dopiness is a pain but I'm hoping it will be worth it. Honestly, do give it a go. That gnawing leg pain is awful.

Lock the door on neighbours kids! You aren't well, tell their parents it's payback time?!

Matidam thanks for reply, I have been told about pip benefit which I think is made up of two parts dla and mobility is that the same as the esa.
the puppy, jake we called him isnt too bad, he manages to go through the nite which is good and dh lets him out first thing when he gets up, anything from 4am to 6am, then when dh goes out jake goes back to bed.
as for the kids, there is usually about 6 or 7 of them, but I only have one or two at a time, but when you say to them, why dont you go and play at your house there always an excuse, like my mum is doing jobs, my mum is resting. I get knocks on the door anything from 9am onwards, and after school in the week, I am dreading half term. I do get bit annoyed by the end of the day. And they eat us out of house and home, I askef one yesterday if her mum feeds her, she came in had some lunch, sandwich, crisps, drink, and cake, then asked me for some pineapple that I had ripening on the side and thensaid can I have icecream to go with it. Dh works some weekends as he does 4 on 4 off so he worked yesterday, next weekend he had both Saturday and sunday, great another house full for me.
hope you allhave a lovely day.

Pink, have you ever heard the old mumsnet saying 'no is a complete sentence?' Seriously, though, just say no to all those kids. Trouble is they all probably think you don't mind. I would hate it.

Now benefits. You've got a wee bit muddled! ESA ia Employment and Support Allowance and has taken over from the old Incapacity Benefit so is for those who are too sick to work. After the year of Contribution Based ESA it is harder to get. I was eventually assessed but although I was approved I was placed in a group called Work Related Activity Group which means you have to attend work related sessions. But...it's means tested so I wouldn't actually get any money anyway. There is a Support Group where you don't have to look for work and is not means tested but it is incredibly hard to get, ie you have to be very severely ill or disabled. ESA also pays your NI stamp at all levels which is useful.

PIP has taken over from DLA or will do fully by 2018. It is a non means tested benefit for the disabled so you can be working and still get it. It has two parts, Daily Living and Mobility. Each of the two sections has two levels, standard and higher rates. You can google the amounts. I do get this, both at higher rate, but only after a very hard slog. They do backdate the money from the date of application if you are successful.

Do google for more info on both but hope that helps. Hope you have now got your feet up and locked the door.

Ps how many dc do you have and ages just out of nosiness?

Here we go again, got the girl two doors up in, my dd went there for half hr then got kicked out as her mum was cleaning. I got em here, and just had asda delivered. I stuck the wii on for the dance game. The poor puppy is doing his nut, wants to play with their feet. My dh going to his parents in a bit told him tm take dd, his dad rang us last nite in tears as his mum has dementia and was being quite nasty. How old are your children, mine is 9 going on 19.

Matilda you and and all the other mumnetters sound lovely. Is it you that was a midwife, what a luvly job.
can i jurt ask if the disc heals will the nerve take longer, i am taking 20mg of amitriptaline at nites, not sure if can increase. I still have good days and bad though. I have physio tomorrndw then bk to docs 21st as note runs out.

Pink, yes midwife for 25 years. I'm not all that lovely all the time.. My two boys are 22 and nearly 25 but I started quite young so am still in my 40s ( just!). So luckily for me I'm not reason possible for any childcare. Just me, DH and the dog at home.

As we've said the nerve might take ages to fully heal. In fact the disc may well still be prolapsed. It is very common for the back pain to reduce leaving the leg pain. I'm afraid we will keep on saying the same thing, it could take months. Sorry. Yes, you can increase your amytriptiline up by 10mgs at a time up to 50mgs at night if you can tolerate the side effects. I still strongly recommend the gabapentin. I'm guessing you aren't taking this? I promise the side effects improve fairly quickly and it works!

I am 40 so had dd quite old nowadays, no I gave up with the gabapentine, I really didnt like them. Now tonight I have more back pain but hardly any nerve pain, think I have done too much, maybe the leg pain will comr later, hope not, I would rather have the back pain, dh took dd to his parents, as soon as they got back, the kids followed the car and knockec again, this time they got the sharp bit of my tongue, I said enough is enough and go and play at your house, didnt go down well. They know that I have been poorly with my back and so do their parents.

Hi everyone, god the weather is awful, I had bupa physio today, my 10th out of 12 free. My back is alot better, my musvles in my back aren't as tight as they were two weeks ago, I have a lot more movement in my back, I still have the annoying nerve pain, but she had a good old poke and prod on my bum cheek, it was painful, felt bruised, she said my muscles there are very knotty and tight which could be aggravating the nerve. I mentioned that I had back pain last night but gone today, she said that is normal with disc injury, do you agree thats how you all go. She alsosaid that the nerve will take longer than the disc to heal, isthis also true. She also mentioned about pain management clinic, I am not really sure what they are, I told her iwant to avoid surgery if possible. What do you read in to her remarks.

He I agree with all of that. There is a muscle called the piriformis in your bum cheek which gets really tight and knotty and compresses the nerves running through it causing and adding to the nerve pain. Massage can improve this.

Pain management clinics do exactly what it says on the tin. I have had a lot of treatment dorm two clinics. As well as a few doctors they offer other therapies like acupuncture, tens, Alexander Technique, pain management course, physio and psychological support. The doctors are likely to review medication and suggest any changes they think might help. They can also recommend injections etc. sadly the waiting lists are usually horrendous so of you think you might benefit ask for a referral ASAP. Pain management clinics do not offer surgery and will usually not accept patients who are waiting for or being assessed for surgery. If you are improving then an injection might help you avoid surgery because it helps with the pain whilst your body is fixing itself.

Hope that helps and you have a nice quiet day without hoards of children. It's raining here, too. Good excuse to be lazy.

Is the piriformis musvlr likelyto be tight from the disc injury or something on its own. Physio says she doesn't think I would be candidate for surgery as dont have pain all the way down the leg and its not affecting my bladderor bowel movements, and because the pain comes and goes. My god she had a good old prod on my cheek, hurt like mad, hope its a good sign. My physio also does accupunture which I tried last time, they do all sorts of different treatments.
have you had the injections and did it work, was it a day case or bit longer. Did it hurt.

pink I agree with matilda. it could be the piriformis, or another muscle that's causing some pain. When a disc prolapse, the disc itself does not hurt; it has not pain receptors of it's own, no nerves of it's own. What it does is trigger muscles to spasm, and if it touches a nerve, or traps a nerve, causes pain from the nerve. Once the muscles start to spasm, if the problem is not fixed (is the disc is not returned to it's normal state), or, often for a while after it has done so, it continues to spasm, causing back lock, pain, etc. It can then spread to other muscles, as we change how we walk, how we hold ourselves/posture, and your buttocks themselves will have pain through them from the nerve damage, so those muscles also spasm. This creates the knots and tension. Sometimes, you can have problems with muscles long after the problems are fixed if they are ignored. Massage is a fabulous way of relieving the tension, getting rid of knots, and improving their natural movement, which will help your long term recovery.

Unfortunately, once a disc fixes itself, it leaves a wake of other shit to fix - muscles, posture, general level of fitness, core muscles in particular need strengthening. But, those things ARE fixable, although you do need to spend some time working on those things for them to get fixed. Don't go mad now you are feeling like you are improving, but do make sure you do some gentle exercises, as you are probably encouraged to do by your physio.

The nerve can most definitely take longer to heal than the disc itself. One the nerve is damaged, it can take up to 18 months to recover. It sounds like you are recovering brilliantly, just keep yourself paced, slowly and gently.

Oh and re injections, they work for some, not for others, would definitely suggest considering it if offered. It will be an 'in and out' job - go in, have local anaesthetic, have the injection, and then lay flat for between 30 mins and two hours, depending on the hospital, how busy they are etc, and how you feel. You won't be able to drive yourself home and should plan to do nothing for the rest of the day, but the day after you can do the things you would normally do but ma have increased pain at local site of injection and also it can increase nerve pain for a couple of days due to aggravation of the nerve as the needle goes in.

I had a good few weeks relief from it, unfortunately, not enough for the doc to give me another one without a flare up, which of course I will likely have again soon and so will become eligible

It my full time job.

I've had 7 different injections without any benefit. They do help some people but the benefit can be variable and the time it works for can also vary from a few days to a year! So nothing very definite.

joyful I am addicted to Mr Google and hassling the NHS for info :D we have a view here that we do not presume that the HCP in charge of us know everything (some don't know anything) and we have to take charge of the knowledge and tell them how it is and let them tell us otherwise sometimes works

You said you struggle with codeine as it makes you sick. Is that at the very lowest level? Have you tried starting with co-codemol 500/8mg and working very slowly up from that? It might take a few days, but your tolerance may increase. How about tramadol, have you tried that? Or, there is another codeine based one, hydrocodiene, rather than codeine sulphate, might be worth giving those a try? Sulpadol is hydrocodeine, so you could always try them from the pharmacy, the dose is a reasonable dose to try and if it doesn't wallop you, you could talk to the GP about a slightly higher dose to help.

How about NSAIDS? I am sure you've told me why you can't take those. If it's stomach related, you could ask the GP for suppositories. HCP are not pro-active with this shit. You got to kick their butts.

Joyful sorry I missed your earlier comments about analgesia. Agree with Pavlov about increasing your tolerance and trying different things. However, your GP sounds like a bit of an arse tbh. Sorry if I'm off the mark but you have had severe pain for years and he doesn't want you on meds because....? It's not like toothache he or severe period pain where the messages on the packets of codeine say 'not to be used for more than three days'. This is a long term and major problem. I would try someone new and go in and explain your issues ( exact location of pain/s, when, how often and how bad) and request either a referral to a pain clinic or a trial of meds which that same GP monitors with you on a very regular basis. Anti nausea meds might get added, too. Good luck and please do this. My own GP has been such a star I want everyone to have a share of this kind of medicine. Properly practiced medicine.

Let us know how it goes. In the meantime are you using heat? Now it's cooled off I'm back using my daily patches. They truly are magic .