Back Pain and Internet Shopping. Thread Number 5.

[PavlovtheCat]

Those who have long term back problems know that the best way to help manage back pain is to internet shop for shoes, bags, and back support devices. Those who are new to back pain, these are important lessons to learn.

And here within this thread is where you will learn those lessons.

You will also find other helpful advice on pain management, different treatment options from hydrotherapy and physio to surgery, experiences of others navigating the big and scary medical world, both private and NHS (and abroad from the UK) too, as well as issues around work, being a parent while managing pain and disability, and the impact on the relationships around us.

Between us all, we have a huge wealth of knowledge and experience, and more than the practical advice, the jargon and information, we know what back pain is like, how much is affects everything around us, and sometimes, all we need is to have people listen who Get It.

We talk painkillers regularly, have hot water bottles and wheat bags galore, and hold hands a lot. It's potentially all very Unmumsnetty as we do actually show some lovin' from time to time, although we Never Ever call each other hun.

If you have advice, need advice, need a hand to hold, want to do some shopping, then come in. We are friendly. We talk a lot. Come in, have a and say hello

You will see just how much we do talk if you read our previous threads (where you may glean lots of answers about pain relief, surgery etc, best winter boots etc):
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2049637-Back-Again-Back-Pain-Support-Thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1871592-The-Back-Story
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1992406-The-Back-Story-Continues
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2023274-More-Terrible-Back-Stories

Like me eh? Let's see...

Slovenly home - tick
er...
Dress? - Don't think I have one quite like that.
Youthful, slim, blonde? - ahem not quite.
Singing a happy effing work song - Not right now though it has been known...

Word from the wise. If you have a free standing dishwasher and you are not the type to clean behind it now and then (do people do that?) DO NOT pull it out. No No No. You do not need to know what it is like behind there. If you think you might have had rats in the kitchen - double that instruction! BLEUARRGH! How though? How? The dishwasher can only be 5mm off the floor so how did they get under it to poo? Perhaps they pooed at the back and then batted them under for fun...

Why did I not get a still from that film when I was struugling googling rat washing up, rat dishes, rat sink?

The trap is not there now Loon The chicken wire is holding and there has been no sign of any rat Action on RAT CAM!
Perhaps I should get DH to set RAT CAM up outside on the other side of the hole to catch disgruntled rat shots!

DD3 is in a Snow White panto starting at the weekend, I'll see what helpful tips she can pick up if you like?

In other news, my GP has finally managed to confirm that I have a bulging disc at C6/C7, and that the pregabalin/amytriptyline was for "hypersensitive nerves in my face and foot". She's given me naproxen (and omeprazole) to see if that helps my neck and shoulder, but is reluctant to refer me to the pain clinic for steroid injections as we both agreed I'm not in enough pain to risk any side effects. Am going to carry on with lots of paracetamol as well.

What she did say, and i'd be interested if anyone else has been told this, and if it's worked, was that if I lost weight significantly (size 16 down to size 8) the disc would probably slip back into place. If I stayed the same weight, things would stay the same, and if I put on weight, they would get worse. It would take an immense amount of effort to get to a 10 (have never been an 8 in my life ), but how likely is it that the disc would go back, and more importantly stay back in place if I managed the weight loss and maintenance?

Discs don't slip back into place, Leaping - don't know what your GP is on about. One book I read (by Sarah Key, a physiotherapist) said that trying to get the bulging nucleus back into the centre of the disc is like trying to get squeezed toothpaste back in the tube. The only way a bulge goes away is if the prolapsed part dries up / is reabsorbed into the body (there seems to be some uncertainty about the mechanism for this, but it can & does happen).

Excess weight does of course put extra stress on the spine, & excess weight on the stomach in particular can cause an exaggerated lumbar curve & put more pressure on the discs & facet joints at the very bottom - L4/L5 & L5/S1 especially.

Given that your problem is right up in the cervical spine I'd have thought the connection with extra weight was extremely tenuous. AFAIK cervical spine problems are quite common as the neck has to hold the weight of the head (& going down a few dress sizes doesn't generally make your head smaller! ) & because it's so mobile. I think posture can be a real factor with problems here, & lifestyle factors like spending a long time hunched over computers etc. My consultant says he thinks the biggest factor in disc degeneration is genetics, though.

Can you put a trap outside, berrie, just to be on the safe side? I guess the electronic ones might not be safe, but a traditional / poison one might work. Though all these cute rat pictures are making me think it might not be so bad after all.

Leaping How about setting you a more realistic target first of all!
I don't think the discs go back in, the body absorbs the bulge.
I had my prolapsed disc removed and then - I think just because I could eventually move around properly for the first time in years - I lost weight and had no further problems for a long time. I have this year put weight back on and I have problems (though I think they might be related to a fall I had) I am in no doubt whatsoever at all that my weight influences my back. I'm a size 18. It's very hard though. I have got fatter in these past few weeks I've been lying around. I start a diet every Monday. It lasted ALL day this week which was an achievement!

Also size 16 is not so big...that's thin for me so she could be wrong.

Berrie, important stuff first. You heard the princess, 'It's always nice to make new friends', time to embrace your 'guests' . Maybe the little bastards darlings have bypassed the chicken wire and webcam to pop up through the dishwasher. If film is correct it could be dozens, I'm afraid .

You are all right about forgetting the pain. I had a formal Pain Assessment yesterday and was really struggling with the hundreds of questions, especially the ones about rating pain from 1-10 and what percentage of time is on what level..

Anyway he then said 'Well if your pain is so bad then all these drugs can't be working and you could have Opiod Induced Algesia.' Basically the drugs can start to increase the pain. He said to consider detoxing and see what happens . I'm reasonably sure what would happen and it's not pretty.. I think he meant well but it made me feel somehow responsible for my condition.

Leaping are you doing daily Constructive Rest? It's great for gently pulling your spine, but particularly your neck into shape.

Still having to type at a rate of one word a minute with bizarre symbols popping up. Hoping these will assist the mumsnet technical team.

Oh and Leaping, I'm not at all overweight and still my disc went. And I was both strong and fit. As were plenty of others on here. I guess being within 'normal' weight must be a good thing but it doesn't stop discs pro lapsing.

To give you all hope after 6 months of pain (and a newborn) this weekend I came off my last Tramadol and am just on paracetamol and ibuprofen (which help my current cold too). Feeling good, standing straight and feeling like a normal person with just occasional blips of pain rather than before a person in pain with moments of normality. Also loving taking care of my baby and doing normal new mum things just like I thought I would.

Although I know I may not be clear forever (as would like more children - the consultant said I was unlucky this time but I'm still a little nervous) and before my herniated disc I suffered from lower back pain on and off which the Chiro helped with I feel I am entering a new chapter.

Seeing my consultant next week so will keep you posted.

I did find out thanks to the MRI that the disc above the one which herniated is also poor but he said lots of people have poor discs which are only picked up on MRI's for other things.

Merry Christmas all

Hmm interesting Matilda I was rehospitalised soon after my discectomy because I had the most horrendous - someone kill me now- recurring headache attacks which lasted 20 minutes then faded right away to nothing. They never found out what it was and in the end I asked to go home because all they did was give me oramorph which took 20 minutes to work by which time it was all over. Anyway - I always thought afterwards that it was something to do with all the opiates I'd had. I never knew whether it was too much or withdrawal...who knows.
Sorry he made you feel bad.

Hmm thanks all, food for thought. I was really hoping this GP would know her stuff - we need a really good GP for DD2, and she's not been too great for her - think reading up a bit about a rare condition, then "advising" DD to do the first line of treatment, when DD has moved much further on to heavy duty unlicensed drugs - so I was hoping she could redeem herself a bit by knowing about my neck .

Perhaps my excess weight is all in my head (see what I did there ?) - sadly my BMI tips me into obese and my waist measurement is too bad to even type here, so losing weight would be good for me, I just need to want to enough.

Am trying the Constructive Rest, plus my Dm has given me a book called Heal your Neck by a NZ physiotherapist called Robin McKenzie who seems a v well respected chap, so I need to read that through and look at his exercises. So that plus my "pain sandwich" of paracetamol and naproxen should get me through the next few weeks.

Just be aware re. Robin McKenzie, Leaping, that he's best known for promoting mainly extension exercises & they don't suit everyone. It may be different for necks, but hyperextension makes my lower back worse. My physio (the good one I've seen recently) says it's because I have quite an exaggerated lumbar curve already, so further extension is just squeezing my facet joints together & putting more pressure on my knackered disc.

Matilda, you've only been on the full dose of co-codamol recently, haven't you - so it does sound unlikely that the pain-killers are making it worse. What surprised me when I read it recently is how many people can't metabolize codeine (& other similar drugs) at all. Apparently it's thought to be as many as 10% of the population who have a gene variation that means they can't break it down into morphine, so it gives no pain relief however much of it you take. And others metabolize it unusually quickly, potentially causing more side-effects.

Bit of a long shot, but I wonder if anyone here could offer me some advice?

DM is scheduled for a cystoscopy, but due to spinal issues is unable to lie flat. Has anyone had this procedure and if so, is there any way round this?
She has spoken to the clinic, but they 'think it should be ok'. This is causing a great deal of stress and we'd like to get it sorted before the appt.

Can anyone help please?

Don't know anything about the procedure, Molly, but does it help your DM to have a pillow / support behind the knees when lying down? That does take the strain off the lumbar spine & is usually offered for procedures like lumbar MRI scans where people are generally suffering bad back pain.

Will she be conscious / sedated / under local anaesthetic? Sedation could of course help with anxiety & relax the spinal muscles too, but don't know if it would be appropriate with a cystoscopy.

Just a work update, two more bite the dust and put notice in yesterday and today. Also we all had ltrs today saying that they are transferring all the businesses and assets to a limited company, our contract and length of service carries on as normal. To me that doesnt sound too good, bupa have a per cent of the company and the other is going to this other ltmd company.

Molly, I would imagine that a cystoscopy would be done with the patient in a lithotomy positions. That's legs up in stirrups. It may not be very dignified but could actually take pressure off the lumber spine if that's her problem. She should definitely discuss it with the staff so they can get her as comfortable as possible.

Hope she's ok.x

cold That's wonderful :) I am also enjoying the fact that the paracetamol and ibuprofen help with the cold that I caught off DP. I only read the ibuprofen packet today and realised you are only meant to take 6 every 24 hours... I have been merrily taking 8 thinking that was okay. Oops.

The dishwasher can only be 5mm off the floor so how did they get under it to poo? I read when I was growing up that rats can fit under a closed door - they basically squeeze all their bones and everything flat like a pancake and shuffle through. Just to leave you with that lovely mental image.

Mixed day today. Still angry that I am waiting for a letter for the "urgent" MRI referral. I have a GP appointment tomorrow for more Tramadol so will chase it then. I am pulling loads of late nights this week as I have a huge project that I am not sure will be done on time. I realise I keep taking time out of my day to go to the GP - will be at least 1.5 hrs tomorrow by the time I have walked there, waited because they are late, then walked back - and this is why I have got so little work done. My boss is lovely, as usual, but I am so frustrated that a serious car accident is being treated with such little urgency. I just want to know what the problem is! The even more frustrating thing is that I can't vent my frustration at the NHS because then I'll just get blacklisted as difficult.

Spent all this afternoon and evening in bed - it was a struggle to go in this morning but there wasn't anyone else who could go to my meeting. I have had a lot of nerve pain, tingling and weakness in my legs all day.

V TMI question (skip if you want!) - doctors keep asking about my bodily functions (I guess for Cauda Equina?). I don't have uncontrolled functions so I have always said no, but I realised today that I don't really have a sense of when I need to go - I am just in the habit of drinking lots and going regularly so I have carried on doing that. However when I try and focus on any sensations below my waist it's just all a big mess of discomfort (everywhere), pressure/pain (spine) interspersed with nerve pain and wobbly legs - I have to really think/focus about whether it's hunger, pain, wee or what my DM calls "big jobs" She also calls Tampax "necessaries", it's hilarious Is this the sort of thing I need to mention, or is it normal? I am so lost in all of this - the GP I have to see tomorrow (lovely GP not available) is quite hurrying so I want to be precise in what I say. The bonus of not really getting hungry now is that I am not so worried about not being able to go to the gym.

berrie don't tell me that's the actual rat...

ins that is exactly what you need to mention to GP. Do it tomorrow. First thing before anything else. Explain that you didn't mention it because you didn't think about it being a problem as in not wetting yourself, but definitely mention what is known as 'altered sensation' and difficulty in working out if you need to go or not. Also think about any other 'altered sensation' in the entire saddle area - so backside, genital and groin region. 'altered' can be a change, not just a numbness, but pins and needles, some but not complete loss of sensation. To be honest, I don't want to encourage unnecessary dramatics, but under your circumstances I would be emphasising this purely so you can get your MRI done ASAP. I feel concerned on your behalf that you have had a serious accident, have symptoms of nerve entrapment and you are left without any clue or any hcp urgency to find out what is going on. Differently to someone who has a disc prolapse for wear and tear purposes, there could be some damage from the accident that needs to be addressed now.

Also, along with the toilet issues, the weakness in the legs is relevant, because CES symptoms include loss of bladder control (and all that it encompasses which is more than the NHD website talks about)/bowel control issues/altered sensation in saddle area and also weakness in one or both legs.

Thanks pavlov I also have a horror of unnecessary dramatics (my Dad is a complete hypochondriac and I have spent my life watching people's eyes glaze over when he starts talking about his health!). I did tell my doctor, when asked, that on Sunday the weekend before last my leg gave out underneath me. She said "hmm, that's concerning" and then told me to take more painkillers. To be fair that was the appointment when she requested the "urgent" MRI (separate from the clinic I have been referred to in December).

I am very concerned that I could be doing more damage as they literally have no clue what my spine looks like at the moment and all my symptoms are getting worse (albeit slowly compared to some on here). Contrast that with my friend who was driving and broke his vertebrae - he has had full and immediate treatment (to be fair it was pretty bloody obvious he was injured - the car was wrapped around him). His bones have mended, he's having physio and he's making a good recovery. I have said this to the GPs, who seem unconcerned other than telling me not to overdo it, which isn't really an answer. I have no idea how to force an MRI short of paying for one - I suspect they would like me to do this so that I stop bothering them, which just makes me more angry and determined DP is fuming and cursing the British healthcare system - this whole experience has him muttering about how things are much better in Germany I think because I can, with the aid of painkillers, walk okay and deal with day to day life at a basic level they are not interested.

Forgot to add I don't know where I'd be without the sage advice on this thread :)

I rarely seem to recognise that I get colds these days. I actually became a little poorly quite recently as I didn't recognise the symptoms of a viral bug and ignored it, left me feeling really fucking rotten and got a skin infection and all sorts, took antibiotics to fix me as it obviously turned into something bacterial. I put it all down to back problems as the back pain had spiked - apparently back pain will increase with colds and viruses because it increases inflammatory markers within our body and they area already high in the damaged area, already working hard to deal with shit going on there (that's obviously not quite how he said it ).

I want the kitchen done now. I am ready for him to be done. Got 1.5 days before the kitchen is done apart from floor (it's been levelled, but needs laying, gonna do that after painting the ceiling), but he then needs to come back next week to do the hallway cupboard/larder, which he says will only take a day. Fucking cheek, he is charging £700 for it .

Inselaffe - I'm in Germany and it can be better but only if you know who and what to ask for, loudly. Anyway yeah I would mention any altered sensation - what is thecwait time for mri where you are

ins there have been times over the years when this lovely bunch, and other MNers have pulled me through some really difficult patches, and when my back problems first started and I was being fobbed off with 'muscle or ligament strain' and sent away with painkillers (and not very strong ones at that) I just didn't know where to turn, I had no clue how to navigate the NHS system, didn't know I could actually ask for things like to see a neurosurgeon, I never considered that a GP would not do exactly the best thing to do and the process with the help of MNers opened my eyes hugely to how things are often decided on funding (GPs for example have a maximum MRI quota they are allowed/guided to use in a certain period - monthly I think - and this affects whether they refer quickly, or whether they try and stall it as they may be close to their maximum).

I learnt from the experiences of many others, some of whom post here on this thread (and some I wish would) to be the champion of my own health, to arm myself with as much knowledge about what's going on with me, and to call the shots with what I want to happen. Which is why I am having spinal surgery by a leading specialist neurosurgeon based in a top London hospital in January (thanks to MNers who recommended him!), because I didn't accept the response from my old neurosurgeon and asked/insisted on a second opinion (having got my GP on board who is ultra impressed with my pro activeness).

I would still probably be laying in bed now (ok, I actually am ) having lost my job, accepted there is nothing that can help me/the disc will one day heal itself spontaneously and chock full of drugs, if it were not for this thread and others I have been on before it.

too