Back Pain and Internet Shopping. Thread Number 5.

[PavlovtheCat]

Those who have long term back problems know that the best way to help manage back pain is to internet shop for shoes, bags, and back support devices. Those who are new to back pain, these are important lessons to learn.

And here within this thread is where you will learn those lessons.

You will also find other helpful advice on pain management, different treatment options from hydrotherapy and physio to surgery, experiences of others navigating the big and scary medical world, both private and NHS (and abroad from the UK) too, as well as issues around work, being a parent while managing pain and disability, and the impact on the relationships around us.

Between us all, we have a huge wealth of knowledge and experience, and more than the practical advice, the jargon and information, we know what back pain is like, how much is affects everything around us, and sometimes, all we need is to have people listen who Get It.

We talk painkillers regularly, have hot water bottles and wheat bags galore, and hold hands a lot. It's potentially all very Unmumsnetty as we do actually show some lovin' from time to time, although we Never Ever call each other hun.

If you have advice, need advice, need a hand to hold, want to do some shopping, then come in. We are friendly. We talk a lot. Come in, have a and say hello

You will see just how much we do talk if you read our previous threads (where you may glean lots of answers about pain relief, surgery etc, best winter boots etc):
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2049637-Back-Again-Back-Pain-Support-Thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1871592-The-Back-Story
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1992406-The-Back-Story-Continues
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2023274-More-Terrible-Back-Stories

at Phil Collins. Was in a service station loo recently when they were pumping out that song "Just take a look at me now" (if that's what it was called) from the mid '80s. I'd forgotten all about it (& him) until then too.

I've just seen the lovely consultant. I'm not having a discectomy. Basic points from new MRI:

The nerve impingement from L5/S1 prolapse does seem to have improved. The prolapse is still there - has actually changed a bit: dried up a bit at right (maybe why my lower right leg symptoms have improved overall) & a bit worse at left (again, probably why I get some left leg pain now); but while there is still some impingement, there seems to be slightly more space near the exit foramen around the nerve roots. So it's not getting worse, & the consultant thinks that I may not gain much improvement from a discectomy now, especially given the increase in back pain.

Bad news is that the disc -which he already told me was pretty much completely done for - is even more degenerated, & he says that's the source of my back & general pelvic / upper leg pain. There's the loss of cushioning, inflammation from damaged disc wall, bit of arthritis & bit of endplate change.

Good news is that the other discs are still looking healthy (tiny bit of arthritis at L4/L5, but he says that's definitely no more than you'd expect at my age), & he claims the overall outlook is pretty good as degenerative disc disease, without complications, should improve with age. I think you said you've been told similar, pavlov?

So: no discectomy. He's going to ask my GP to refer me to the pain clinic, though I know from this thread not to expect too much from that. He thought an epidural might help, as a specific nerve root block didn't, but again I'm not holding out much hope there. He did say I'm not taking my pain-killers properly & need to take them regularly. I do take NSAIDs regularly, but co-codamol as & when. I put it off too long & find it very hard to manage pain / activity, so he's probably got a point.

He was clear, professional & sympathetic, as he always has been, & I know he's right that discectomy doesn't seem like the viable option it did when I saw him in February / March with exclusively right leg pain.

Still feel the upshot is that I have to fuck off & somehow deal with being in pain most of the time. And I know the problems are minor compared with some of you, but I'm still struggling. My standing & walking tolerance are as shit as they've ever been right now & I'm feeling pretty negative. And I'm having a fucking rosacea flare-up so I can't even have a drink - not that I'd be hitting the bottle at midday, honestly!

Sorry for epic moany post. Hope you had a better night pavlov & hope everyone else is coping today. How are you doing, pink?

Loon, I get the feeling: good news no surgery but feeling like a heavy door has slammed leaving you locked out in the cold world of pain?
I have noticed an improvement in my pain control since starting to take my cocodamol absolutely regularly. I also have a tramadol sr mid morning at at bedtime. This leaves me functional if I pace myself rigorously and do not schlep round town all afternoon. Oromorph anyone?

Losty will you please stop mentioning That Man?

Nice jumper. Wish I had the zip Fly boots. Sulks.

loon so kinda good news (which is rare in here!) if you look at the mess all us post-surgery gals are in but still doesn't help you with the pain. Matilda said it better!

I am finding if I take several doses of co-codamol then the next day will be spent throwing up (today uurrgghh) plus almost in a coma so need to stop more than 1 dose and maybe find something else? Any suggestions ladies? At least today wasn't projectile vomiting which then required cleaning of the bathroom (last weekend) which is not my gorilla's fave hobby so yay something to be grateful for. Good grief.

Where are the Santa emoticons? Still new here!

I am surfing jewelery which I'm not sure I can spell .. might come in handy for Xmas hints hehe

feeling like a heavy door has slammed leaving you locked out in the cold world of pain

Yes! That's it exactly. Makes me feel a bit weepy reading those words, actually - I think it's relief that other people understand.

Of course right now part of me just wishes I'd taken the discectomy option when it was on the table. I keep thinking that maybe if I'd sorted out the nerve pain earlier, I wouldn't have had so many knock-on muscular problems & maybe my back would still be working more normally.

I know that's probably cloud cuckoo land though, not to mention futile. The best outcome I guess would have been a quicker improvement in lower leg pain & maybe less of the other problems. But it wouldn't have fixed the disc disease. And worse outcomes, of course, could have been anything from a lot of pain for no gain to problems with scar tissue or nerve damage. I suppose I just liked the idea that there were options.

The consultant did say that a lot of disc degeneration issues are genetic, & my mum had loads of back problems. But she did recover from 2 or 3 prolapses & it did get better as she got older. Smoking may have made it worse in her case - it causes disc dehydration, doesn't it - & is the reason she's not around now, so I can't predict what my back might be like in my '70s!

Not sure what to do re. the pain relief issue. I never take the full dose of co-codamol. I would probably be pretty much pain-free if I did, along with the NSAIDs, but I'd never shit again, lactulose or no lactulose. I often try & hold off taking any as far into the day as I can, & end up in a state swallowing 60mg at once. Maybe I'll ask for some 15mg ones & start taking them 4 times a day.

loon I agree that it's difficult to predict what would happen if you had the surgery earlier, I suspect that a lot of your pain might still be there. I have read quite a lot about end plate inflammation on it's own causing significant pain that's hard to control (and is little understood). I had a discectomy, which was in itself successful in that it fixed the nerve pain on the left that was problematic at the time, but was done I suspect far too late for any long term 100% success (18 months after my back went badly, probably several years post first flare up), and was unable to halt the degeneration of the rest of disc(s). My very first MRI noted end plate changes so it may be that if I had the disctectomy straight away it would still not have solved it all for me.

I was originally told by a guy in spinal pathway that I may find myself skiing and all sorts by my mid 60s as the discs eventually dry up and disappear completely. However, when I asked him what would then hold my vertebra apart and allow me pain free movement, he said the vertebra would eventually fuse together on their own. I asked him how long that would take, and would it hurt as it did this? and he swiftly moved on. So, my own research has concluded that it may well continue hurting long after the discs degenerate, as the facet joints continue to rub against each other, not being supported by the discs, create more bone spurs, impinge on the nerve space etc etc. Sorry, that's really not what I should be saying is it? . I prefer straight talking. I would prefer to say 'really sorry but you stand a chance of having pain for some considerable time, it will be advisable to work closely with GP and pain clinic and work out a long term plan for this'.

Fucking 60s. But, if they are right, then I can't wait to be skiing down slopes with my grandchildren kicking their asses and shouting obscenities to youngsters, getting drunk as I won't be taking strong painkillers, all sorts!

losty I love that dress! Will look fab with Fly boots. I need to get a dress like that. I need more dress/tight combinations as I can get dressed into those more easily than trousers.

loon you mentioned And, now, you said the words from the song, it's in my head ARGGGGH!!

Some cabinets are up in the kitchen woohoo! I sort of don't want to look now, I want to wait for the Great Unveiling

I am back in bed. I left the house, felt reasonably ok doing the school run, as in, parking in the disabled space at the school carpark, walking to the classroom (DD meets me at DSs room) and back (2 mins each way), then to swimming, got them undressed, sat and watched them swim (5 min walk to get to watch them swim as it takes me so long!) and sitting really fucking hurt, then dressed again, then to a cafe for dinner. By the time I got home, was ready for laying down again! How have I been working And I had a nap for about 2-3 hours today. I didn't mean to, I was sat up at an angle in bed, power went off so no internet, just lay there, sort of knew I dozed as I woke myself up snoring a couple of times then DH woke me up at 2:25pm!

Shit, I really do talk too much. Nurse doing the OH assessment this week said the same. She said I need to spend less time talking to clients in my interviews but then, she also said my clients have plenty of time to sit around and talk and that I obviously like to sit and chat with them and have pleasantries for an hour but I need to look after myself - huge sweeping statements about a) what I do in my appointments, and why I might spend an hour in an appointment (they don't rehabilitate on their own, or by us talking about the weather and if a client talks to me about a very emotive subject linked with offending and leaves them emotionally exposed I won't just end the session at a set time and leave them at risk of offending/harming themselves/feeling upset) and b) about my clients. Some of them, lots of them work, they are not all 'layabouts' and I found myself feeling a little protective of them!

See, even then, talk too much!

losty I was going to say that I only had a few weeks of relief from the steroids last time round, and the first time, only 2 weeks, but also that I was told it can take about 2 weeks for it to work. I will keep my fingers crossed you get some more relief from it. Are you are your exh (is he ex now? has the divorce completed?) on speaking terms? Do you have lots of support around you to help with everything, your own care, the children?

loon have to tried tramadol? you might have already said, but if not, might be worth giving it a try. I find it doesn't mess my bowels up so much as codeine, although I do need to keep up the fruit/fluids and occasional medical stuff (can't remember the name as having a brain fart, you know the stuff) I definitely know when I have upped my codeine (i.e. like now).

Or, definitely consider a lower dose of codeine, but regularly, as I find my pain much more manageable when I am taking regular painkillers.

mtailda talking of which. Does tramadol keep you awake when you take it at night? I wonder if I took it when I was really tired, so I went to sleep before it kicked in, if I might be able to sleep through the 'wired' bit. Maybe it's a problem because I take when not totally sleepy, so by the time I get to go to sleep I am already wide awake from the effects of it. Maybe I will try it.

I'm gonna shut up for a bit... (not even had extra tramadol )

ok, last post for a bit. Promise

losty I LOVE that shop you linked to. Love the clothes. But, fucking crap they never have my size in clothes I like bugger...

It's odd, tramadol used to mess up my sleep, giving me psychedelic dreams and so on but I seem to have got over that. Having said that a most night couple of glasses of wine plus amytriptiline habit probably help. But the last few nights I have definitely been aware of pain at night like you, pav, which is an ugly reminder of nights with literally no sleep at all. Now that's when you could get properly suicidal.

It does, though make me talk way too much . So does codeine. It's a combination of meds and also being alone too much. I'm very aware of it when I'm with friends but just can't shut up. I do try to explain but feel embarrassed about it. It's another thing that only you lot understand.

Re the vomiting ( how horrid) I can only suggest taking a lower yet regular dose and gradually increasing. My experience is that almost all side effects have eased. Other than the talking. And constipation. Re I would say that monody should suffer pain because of constipation. It is treatable one way or another. I'm lucky that a goo slug of lactulose each night means I go fairly regularly. Especially if I eat. I haven't done much of that recently. Pain and tramadol put me off my food.. If I get much skinnier DH will be on my back, feeding me up and nagging which I hate. I don't like it much either as at my age you, well, look it and I've always sort of prided myself in looking younger than my age.( probably delusional).

Also, spending time talking to vulnerable clients is never time wasted. Best part of the job. Nobody ever disclosed DV to someone who is glancing at their watch.

I talked too much before the meds matilda, this all just makes it so much worse! I actually don't talk a huge amount in my supervision sessions with clients - I ask directed questions and guide them in certain directions with specific questions, or open up dialogue, but I do it in a way that gets them doing to the talking. I don't always do 1:1 discussion either, I do active participation, especially around alcohol abuse/effects on the body or anger management work - use a flip chart and get them doing the work (love anger management work) as lots of my clients are active learners.

I might take a tramadol tonight, just for the psychedelic dreams

Have been lurking since the last time I posted in Feb this year. Been up and down with it all to be honest, feeling very down at the moment, so I suppose that's why I'm back again. Sorry if that makes me a fair weathered poster.
Wishing you all a good nights rest as best you can. Just settled down amongst an array of cushions pillows wheat bags and pain killers, oh yes and my ginger tom cat, he always helps!!
I will pop in and out if that's ok with you lot? Whilst I don't post much I do read and try your tips out so thank you.

Snuggle on down, Costa. Pavlov you have clearly been taught excellent methods of discussion. I guess I use to wing it but didn't know it.

Off to bed on a cloud of morphine. Tomorrow is another day.

Morning everyone :) Sorry to not have replied sooner - I went away for work (doing part time at the moment) and didn't have proper internet access in the hotel.

Thank you all for your reassurances. The 'urgent' x ray got cancelled, which nearly put me into tears on Tuesday, as the hospital called my GP and gave her a bollocking saying I could have one but not both, so she picked the MRI. Letter hasn't arrived yet (it's self-booking). When it does I will give them a call (I booked online for the clinic) and say I can take any cancellations thanks for that suggestion Lost. To those who suggested it I have thought about private but it's £500 before a consultant and part of me is angry that I pay so much in taxes and can't access the care I need within what feels like a reasonable timeframe - the system relies on people like me who can afford it to opt out, whilst also paying in. I could pay but we are saving up for Christmas, our wedding next year and some house alterations and I don't want to compromise on any of those yet. My DM is seeing if I am covered under her health insurance. In the meantime the pins and needles are now in my arms as well as my legs.

I saw the GP this morning and got another prescription for Tramadol, I have my fingers crossed for appetite suppressing Cold! It has certainly messed up my eating habits - I find I am eating little and often to keep up with the painkillers.

Matilda Sorry for the confusion. I had the accident abroad (EU) and live in the UK. The other guy's insurance is refusing to even pay for our friend's car (fortunately he and his family are local, although he and his wife live here with us otherwise it would just be a nightmare) stating that as the guy was drunk he invalidated his insurance. I have looked into no win no fee but I don't think they would do cross-boundary stuff and the legal system in the country we were in is a complete farce - our friend expects just resolving who was at fault and who pays for the car to take ten years to sort. I could sue my friend (who was driving) via his insurance to get the healthcare but I think that would be a shitty thing to do (thanks DM for suggesting that one!). It was pretty horrific. I am also seeing a counsellor. DP, thankfully, doesn't remember anything but that's because he had a head injury (now on the mend).

The only other news of this week is that I saw the GP about a lump on my leg that's been there since Halloween (a table landed on it) and now I've been referred for another x ray 'just in case' I have cracked the bone - I can only really walk on it with the painkillers.

costa Sorry that you are feeling rubbish again. I have found reading this thread really helpful as well :)

I hope everyone is having a better Friday than the rest of this week - and I hope you've got rid of the rats Berrie!

Avert your eyes Matilda Rat news!

DH came up this morning - I was in the bath- to tell me that he could hear the rat rustling at the carrier bags that are stuffed in the hole.
He called up the stairs before he went to tell me that he had set the friendly rat trap... with a bran flake

Berrie any joy? Oh yuk at the rustling. And rat friendly trap? No way, be Unfriendly. Very Unfriendly .

Ins, that's all awful. Since you have both been really seriously injured I would very much be wanting to peruse a claim. Have you tried any lawyers? These people say they specialise in such cases. Fingers crossed for a quick MRI. The nhs is indeed so frustratingly slow.

I'm not looking under there - no way!

Berrie Bran flake?! That has given me the first laugh of the day

Matilda Thanks v much for that! They are actually based near my office so I have given them a call. They will be calling me back on Monday to confirm - it gets a bit tricky as I don't want my friend (who was driving) to be sued / negatively impacted as they have been very close friends of ours for many years. So they will confirm whether they can sue the other driver only or will have to include my friend. Unfortunately we had pulled out of a junction as the guy came over the hill so although we were on the correct side of the road at the point of impact (and this has been confirmed by independent eye witnesses) and the road was clear when we pulled out, they are still insisting it was our friend's fault So stupid as we had waited for half a dozen cars to pass before we pulled out - he's a very cautious driver and his baby daughter was in the back so he would never drive recklessly with her about.

I hate rats. Don't be friendly. Mice, ok, I can see that (not really as I hate those too but field mice are maybe ok). Did the bran flake work?!

Muscles spasms. minor twisting causing yelping. Diazepam day today.

How awful Ins

I have to admit I chuckled when DH cheerily called up the stairs,"I've set the trap - I hope he likes Bran Flakes!"
I think that he secretly LIKES the rat!

I dare not look Pavlov! Yelping days are never good.

Anyway DH reckons the rat will not get past the carrier bags. He was most offended when I took the piss about him blocking the hole with a bag...there were SEVERAL bags all scrunched up apparently.

I know what you mean about talking too much due to not seeing many people. I find myself saying sorry - I know I'm talking too much but I'm also not going to stop!(if it's a good friend)

I've realised I've slipped back into my mild agoraphobic ways this week. I do tend to suffer with this in the summer holidays. I went to the car to go shopping and turned back for a second time today. I don't really understand it or what I can do about it. It's not a big thing but annoying.

That's going to have to be one very hungry rat if it bothers coming out for a bran flake, berrie!

Hope the diazepam is helping with the spasms, pavlov.

I've just wrapped up some Christmas presents - no fucking idea why, if I was going to sit down for an hour I could have been having fun on MN. Still, it's done now. Need to drug up & go for a walk now - my hip muscles have tightened up like crazy over the past couple of weeks. So frustrating when I do so many exercises, limit sitting down etc. Seems to be a reaction to back / pelvic pain.

Ins the good thing about decent lawyers is that they will only peruse a case if there is a realistic ( more than 50%) prospect of success. I'm glad you are speaking to them because frankly you have been badly injured and could even have lasting pain.

pavlov . Budge up I'm joining you on the diazepam. Tried everything else.

Berrie, yes, I agree, your DH has fallen for your new pet/s what fool imagines a single, solitary rat? Watch out for the appearance of exercise wheels and luxury rodent accessories...

loon are you trying to be annoying? I was pleased with myself for making a few Amazon purchases. Good thing about wrapping is you won't keep looking and go off things thus buying yet more stuff. Too much stuff in the world.

Diazepam not working quick enough, can't take more yet as now driving (obv not right this second.., ) for school run etc, a particularly bad day despite long nap yesterday ok ish sleep last night and lots of resting up. Spasms in particular and pain goes deep and right into groin.

On the plus, kitchen coming along, got the fitted microwave in, some cupboards up. doing ikea tomorrow bit going with list as I can't amble like I used to. Builder is working all weekend!

Hope everyone is doing ok pain wise today, it's bloody miserable weather here eexpect damp ain't helping.