Back Pain and Internet Shopping. Thread Number 5.

[PavlovtheCat]

Those who have long term back problems know that the best way to help manage back pain is to internet shop for shoes, bags, and back support devices. Those who are new to back pain, these are important lessons to learn.

And here within this thread is where you will learn those lessons.

You will also find other helpful advice on pain management, different treatment options from hydrotherapy and physio to surgery, experiences of others navigating the big and scary medical world, both private and NHS (and abroad from the UK) too, as well as issues around work, being a parent while managing pain and disability, and the impact on the relationships around us.

Between us all, we have a huge wealth of knowledge and experience, and more than the practical advice, the jargon and information, we know what back pain is like, how much is affects everything around us, and sometimes, all we need is to have people listen who Get It.

We talk painkillers regularly, have hot water bottles and wheat bags galore, and hold hands a lot. It's potentially all very Unmumsnetty as we do actually show some lovin' from time to time, although we Never Ever call each other hun.

If you have advice, need advice, need a hand to hold, want to do some shopping, then come in. We are friendly. We talk a lot. Come in, have a and say hello

You will see just how much we do talk if you read our previous threads (where you may glean lots of answers about pain relief, surgery etc, best winter boots etc):
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2049637-Back-Again-Back-Pain-Support-Thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1871592-The-Back-Story
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1992406-The-Back-Story-Continues
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2023274-More-Terrible-Back-Stories

Ally, I'm impressed that you are getting AT after only three lessons. It took me longer. I try to remind myself every few minutes to let my neck be free and stop grinding my bloody teeth. A work in progress. I want everyone to learn.

Re exercises, tbh I think we should be careful about recommending things here. It's so hard to be accurate and really they should be taught by physios who check you are doing things correctly. I try to do my little routine every most morning and it does help. But not really to be learned on here. If it's not possible to see a physio the YouTube would heve demos.

Hullo, been a bit awol because the steroids have sent me properly bonkers! Don't know what to do, GP is useless told me to cut down my pain medication because she thinks the injections have reduced my pain so much that the BuTrans is making me manic but my shoulders/t-spine/SI joints still hurt so I am a bit wary of doing so! Anyway, sleep is for wimps.

Pavlov I want to be in your gang of geriatric Fly boots wearing old ladies . I've lost a bit of weight recently and I went out on Fri night in my new boots, black skinny jeans and new cool black jacket and even though my hair is now officially crap I think I looked pretty good. Lashings of red lippy are the key IMHO. Hope your pain is better today.

The 'disabled' label is a weird one isn't it? I suppose with my deafness as well as my Stupid Arthritis I am double disabled (is that a thing, can I be two star disabled?) the blue badge says 'Disabled Persons parking' or similar which upset my DS2 a little bit. Also I think the jury is out on whether or not I'll make it to being an old person, I've had this stupid thing since I was a teenager and it's damaging my kidneys now and can damage the heart and aorta, apparently most of us die of lung problems where it scars them too and that's without all the drugs taken that can't help. It's one of the reasons I called time on my marriage, I thought 'fuck it I can't hang around waiting to become happier, I'd better do it now whilst there's still time' .

buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Posting to let off a bit of steam...

Just come back from the drs. They won't send me in either today or tomorrow for a MRI, instead I have a referral for an 'urgent' x ray and MRI, which could take days and will come through in the post. I don't hold out hope as DP was meant to have an urgent internal scan and that never arrived.

I have now developed tingling and pain in my legs and bum and the tramadol is not as effective as it was, which I think means the pain is getting worse. I didn't realise that if I took it later on in the day I wouldn't be able to sleep (thanks Pavlov, I have now realised why I was so wide awake at night!).

I am so very angry. My work have been brilliant but I think this is going to go on beyond Christmas and it's having such a huge impact on my life - my career, which I have worked so hard for, is suffering (through missed opportunities - my work have actually been great and v accommodating), we are meant to be TTCing next year and I am meant to be getting fit for that but instead am piling on weight. The whole family is coming round for Christmas for five days... We are getting married next year and I've done sod all about it because I just don't have the ability once I've finished doing the essentials (work, laundry, food) to do anything except lie down. The house is filthy. I have never been in so much pain in my life and I just wanted an end in sight :(

I really don't know how you all do it for so long and keep good humour, I have so much admiration for you all.

ins not sure it's humour. It's more hysterical laughing... laugh or cry

Finally, I have a diagnosis that I think might be right!!! I mean, who the fuck actually knows as the surgeon's can't seem to agree, but, it makes sense and it goes right back to my original MRI report, and my feelings of inflammation. And I am absolutely certain the inflammation makes me feel sick but that's another story.

So. This is what appears to be wrong, that he is gonna fix, according to my recent lovely appt with the love consultant in London: nerve root compression at L5/S1 and L4/L5, radiologically worse on the right. As a result of hypertrophied facet joints, thickened ligamentum flavum and a broadly based disc bulge. (I also have endplate erosion and slight retrolesthesis but he can't do anything about the endplate erosion and doesn't need to do anything about the retrolesthesis).

It appears this is 'degenerative disc disease', and has caused inflammation and degeneration of facet joints and inflammation and subsequent thickening of the ligament. And the facet joints and ligament are squishing the nerve at both of those levels.

So he's gonna chop away the bone and clear out the nerve canal.

When I first had MRI, the osteo told me it was degenerative disc disease. He didn't go into huge amounts of detail as he found at the same time that I only had one kidney and was more impressed and excited by that, thinking he might have found another cause of my back pain (he didn't). And then that got dismissed by spinal pathway team and first surgeon who said it was only one problem level.

I am not sure that bone would have grown so much so as to trap my nerve 10 months since my last surgery...

Yay, pavlov, I find a lot of comfort in a proper diagnosis. Bring on the surgery. Well not too soon

Inse, sorry you are feeling so crap. Please don't come and beat me but actually I think you've done quite well to get an urgent referral. Chances are it will be done pretty quickly. Really the emergency scans are for very acute conditions like CES or acute injuries. I know that doesn't help you... Hope it comes along very soon. Do you have proper pain killers in the meantime? What sort of RTA were you in? Sounds awful.

Lost, nooo steroidal madness sounds a bit scarey. Are you on the rampage and eating for Wales?! You certainly qualify for the Geriatric Fly Club as soon as few are old enough.. Seriously, hope you feel better soon.xx

Pavlov I've done a lot of both recently So pleased you have a proper diagnosis - it feels (to my inexperience!) like that's half the battle, so you can concentrate on treatment now :)

Matilda Thanks :) I think actually it was describing the RTA that did it - the other driver was doing at least 100kmph when we first saw him (a few hundred metres away - he came over the top of the hill on the wrong side of the road) and he hit us side on. He was 2.5 times the drink drive limit and apparently it was the first accident he'd been involved in. We were very lucky for a number of reasons - any other permutation of circumstances and we would have been more badly injured. He definitely braked as he lost control of the car (hence side impact) but they don't really do CSI where we were so we have no idea what speed he was doing when he hit us. From my perspective he didn't seem to slow down at all. I have mostly proper painkillers. I am on full whack of paracetemol and ibuprofen (and protecting my stomach with food! I have a GP appt on Thursday for more Tramadol and will ask for the stomach protector then) and Tramadol, which has been brilliant but has made working a bit... interesting!

Sorry I meant, describing the RTA was what prompted the GP to mark the referral as urgent. She was horrified. I'm glad you think I'm doing well to have got that - everything seems so slow when I compare it to what would have happened had the accident occurred here.

Sorry - it was not the first accident he'd been involved in. I blame the painkillers!

ins unfortunately, as matilda says, 'urgent' is just not something that happens for real unless there is something medically urgent like CES. There are lots of us here who have had such horrible pain and loss of living normally and waited for months for MRI scans. I think the normal wait is around 6 weeks for an MRI related to lumbar issues if it's not urgent, so anything quicker than that is good. Unless private is an option for you? You can probably get one for about £300-400, although it's a huge chunk of cash.

Pins and needles suggest nerve problems, it could be compressed nerve, or it could also be that the nerve is irritated by inflammation around it (muscles, bone, ligaments), as inflammatory chemicals are toxic and can cause the nerve to become inflamed. Not a huge amount touches it other than nerve specified painkillers, can't remember, are you on any of those? (pregabalin, gabapentin, amytripyline). If you are not taking any of those, might be worth asking your GP to try one of them, will probably be gaba or amy, although they will take a couple of weeks to work). Heat can work quite well for nerve pain, not necessarily to stop the pain long term, but certainly for easing it there and then.

Tramadol doesn't make everyone wired, some people have lovely sleep on it, knocks them out! not me. and possibly not you! I can't take it after around 3pm or so, as it simply wires me and I just can't sleep. Don't even feel tired. I take it as modified release/slow release, so I can take it early, don't get the seesawing of it as it wears off/I take more and then use codeine in the evenings. That, for some reason, doesn't wire me in the same way. It doesn't knock me out either though. In fact, none of it does really, perhaps diazepam but even then only if I take more than I should, which of course I don't ever do

I just x-posted. I am glad that the Gp has listened and said 'urgent'. I do think your situation is a bit different to those of us who have had back pain come on either gradually or suddenly with no specific cause/accident. The RTA and no spine MRI means they need to do that asap. Maybe in your case, urgent might really be done as such!

Ins, that sounds horrific. Are you not in the uk? Just when you said 'had the accident occurred here'. Or was the accident outside the UK?

Either way I hope you have instructed a shit hot lawyer. Seriously because it's not impossible that you could be left with long term issues and as you have already worked out, having chronic back pain is expensive. Very expensive. Do hope the MRI comes along soon. Have you been referred to a specialist as well? Gps aren't really qualified to diagnose or discuss this kind of problem, it's too specific. Whereas a neurosurgeon or spinal orthopaedic surgeon will be much more experienced.

Hope the painkillers help. If you take the tramadol regularly you will slowly get over the interesting side effects. Also if taken regularly the pain doesn't get such a chance to spike so you can keep it better controlled.

Now I really ought to get up.

Also, tramadol slow release is good as you get a steady release of the drug over several hours. I take that on top of full dose cocodamol, but I'm hardcore!

Matilda you are quite correct and the voice of reason (no I'm not being sarcastic as that's not what we do in this thread thank goodness) in that exercises are specific to each of us. I forgot that although we are all so similar our actual conditions/stages are all very different.

I am impressed with myself too at picking up AT so quickly as I am more thick than quick these days. He said I was but it wasn't until I started to hurt in new places that I believed him. I would however say that you couldn't get this right from the internet - lessons are worth splashing out for. Its not a cure but he is teaching me to move differently and stop pretending I am fine and carrying on but stop and rest or just plain stop lol!

I am now worrying a bit that if I stop pushing myself to do things I will get stiffer and sorer over the years so might pop into my private physio (who has been great over the years) and get her to double check me/MOT me regarding the new movements and stopping some of the exercises. I have to find a balance to keep my gorilla under control if that's even possible. I have been passing that gorilla thread round a few friends and they are all loving it too!

Hi all. Just read about your appointment, pavlov - good to get a diagnosis that makes sense. It did seem that one of the people you saw (the pain consultant??) was strangely quick to dismiss the disc bulges as not a likely cause of the pain.

Had no idea that ligament thickening also played a part in disc degeneration & consequent nerve entrapment. Is the surgeon going to go in at both levels to clear things up?

I'm seeing my consultant on Thursday but think maybe I should 'phone his secretary to see if the MRI results have come through, given that that was less than 2 weeks ago. The appointment will be a bit of a waste of time if he doesn't have access to them, as we need to see the current state of affairs.

Subjectively it's bloody awful. Leg pain below the knee came back 2/3 weeks ago & I've had persistent, gnawing lower back pain since then too. Worried some of it is at L4/L5, not L5/S1 - feels higher anyway. Radiates to bum, both hips, down the back of both legs, though the leg pain isn't as sickeningly bad as my exclusively right leg pain used to be.

Fact is, it's not getting better. Seems to be, but then it keeps coming back, so I guess that means it hasn't really healed. Can't believe it keeps reprolapsing. Back pain has gradually worsened over the last 6 months, which I know doesn't make me a better candidate for surgery, but I am starting to think I'm prepared to give it a go. Am struggling to stand for half an hour ATM to do simple kitchen tasks & i feel my life is becoming increasingly limited, & I'm becoming increasingly isolated, because of this condition.

Still know I've got to be cool-headed & rational about the chances of improvement through surgery - read something else negative the other day about posterior lateral prolapses & how they make microdiscectomies much harder to perform successfully. Last time I saw consultant he said he'd need to chip away some of the foramen, I think, but that it wouldn't be laminectomy.

Ins that sounds horrible, I'm shuddering at the thought of your accident, why are there so many stupid people out there? It's good that they've marked you urgent, you could give the appointments people (often the actual people working in the scanner) and let them know you would be available for cancellations, I don't know how it works now but in my day that was often a good 'in' IYSWIM? But then I am a very lovely radiographer . As Pavlov says though going private is always an option too, I went that route and when the bone scan came through I took it to my GP and went SEE, this is what I was talking about, which opened up the world of pain clinic and rheumatology.

Trying everything possible to calm my buzz down, have taken the BuTrans off completely because my heart was hammering yesterday but unsurprisingly that has left me in pain . I really don't trust that GP, she was very dismissive but I think the fact that life is already very stressful atm and that it wasn't pred or similar but a 10x stronger steroid mean I have a much bigger dose than she was saying have set me off with over excited adrenal glands. Fortunately I am a marvellous googler and have found that vits C and D in big doses can help. Nice cup of valerian tea and the world should all be fiiiine.

Pavlov a big YAY to a proper definitive diagnosis and action plan to help, it's amazing what difference there can be in doctors and their prognosis, this one sounds like a good one, what a relief. I don't think your bone has to grow much at all to irritate the nerve and once it starts the nerve gets inflamed so gets more irritated, more inflamed and so on.

Matilda we are going to rock, us tramadol munching, awesome boot wearing scary older women .

re MRIs - our local hospital had such a long waiting time for MRIs that they outsourced them to the local BUPA hospital . So about a three week wait (for not especially urgent scans) and lovely waiting facilities with tea and coffee on tap.

Just wish the physio department would do the same - they've twice refused to accept an urgent referral for DD, and it took the consultant to make a second referral for the same problem (which i think triggers problems internally) to get her seen the first time, and for the GP to ring them up the second time and ask them why they were refusing to see someone who couldn't walk without crutches .

Arses! There is either a very very large mouse or a RAT coming in the kitchen. This weekend there was a horrible smell and I got enormously pissed off frustrated with DH for not helping me to find out what it was. Anyway last night he took off the kickboards and there were some enormous droppings. DH did not help himself by trying to say they were probably dried up raisins (thus that's the end of that)
Can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to trying to clean under there - it stinks!(for some reason I have not got round to it yet!) Blocking up the hole where the sink pipe goes out is beyond me though.
Leaping It seems we share a raging lust an appreciation of Sam Heughan. Do you think he would go for an older, larger and sometimes hobbling woman who stinks of rats' piss?

Oh no, Berrie! We've had mice before, in our loft & in a previous rented cottage, & the droppings are definitely NOT the size of raisins, I'm afraid - more like little brown crumbs. So it does sound rat-like. There are websites with pictures of various animal shits so you can work out which pest you have.

You can also get electrocution rat traps from amazon. We got one as reviews said they were also good for mice, & we didn't want to use poison. Quick, painless death while eating a bit of snickers - what more could you ask for! Though don't know if rats go for snickers: mice certainly do.

Oh you are right! Website rat shit pics confirm - RATS!
We've actually got a rat trap somewhere. We used to have whole generations of rats living under our hen coop years ago.Mr Fox eventually solved that problem for us - and not by eating the rats. The baby rats used to sit on lupin leaves. and DH used to shoot them out of the window We never managed to catch a rat in the trap even though there were hundreds of them.
I don't think they will get in if DH ever gets round to blocking up the hole!

Inselafee the upside for me of the Tramadol was reduction in appetite. I've lost 3 1/2 stone in the last 6 months - all my baby weight - though BFing will have also helped. For the first 2-3 months I wasn't interested in food which is so unlike me.

Can't say the Tramadol affects me sleep wise. I take it at 11pm and again at 6am (then sleep to around 9am with the baby). So guess we are all affected in different ways by it. Actually think I have a high drug tolerance. I was on 8 Tramadol a day until about a month ago.

I used every angle I could to get seen ASAP (mainly I had a newborn) and also called daily for cancelations and paid for a private MRI.

Good luck

OMAFG!! Rats are on my list of non negotiable house mates. Get rid by any method but you don't want them dead under the floor boards because they stink.

Anyone know why my ipad is typing sooo slowly???

Yes tramadol good appetite suppressant , not generally prescribed for this purpose .

Loon, sorry your pain is so bad, I hope the consultant can help. Unfortunately discs can and do re prolapse. Give it a couple of years and it should dehydrate. That's a long time, though.

Our local hospital uses a private company for all it's MRI scans and they are quite quick and very nice, too. Obviously not as nice as you, lost. I hope your steroid mania settles soon. It sound like drinking ten espressos in a row every day.

It's very interesting that pavlov and I both saw the same surgeon for our second opinion after the first surgery. In both cases he has seen totally different issues on the same MRI scan than surgeon no 1. And been able to clearly point out said problems. I find that very, very scary. I had 'the worst scarring around the nerve root' that he had ever seen causing 'very significant compression of that nerve root'. Surgeon no 1 said, 'Good news, there is no compression on the nerve and you are fine'.

Scary, right? Who the hell can you trust?

That is scary. Do you think in your case Surgeon 1 was deliberately economical with the truth about your scan, matilda, given that he was the one who fucked up?

'Phoned the consultant's secretary & he does have my MRI images, so at least I don't need to rearrange the appointment.

Well, Loon, I have to say I think it is just possible. Frankly I wouldn't trust him to tell me the time. Oh for the benefit of hindsight.