Declining 8 week vaccinations for my baby - experiences?

[Plasticpineapple]

I don't want this to be about whether you should or shouldn't vaccinate your baby. I have chosen not to and I'm looking for experiences from others who have done the same. What did you say? What did the doctor say? Did you discuss vaccination once the child was older or flat out decline all vaccines?

bumble DS2 hasn't had the MMR as he's six months old. He's at nursery, and if any older child at the same nursery gets measles because their parents are anti-vaxers, putting my very vulnerable baby at risk, I will have blood in my eye.

I trust you would be just as upset if a vaccinated child got measles also? Vaccines don't always take the first time. That is why they give an MMR 'booster'.

I would be very sorry if a vaccinated child got measles. That would be a terrible thing. I would probably feel even sorrier for the wilfully unvaccinated child who contracted measles. I would probably have to suppress violent thoughts against their stupid parents.

I guess the difference is, if my vaccinated child got measles I would still know I had done everything in my power to prevent it. If I hadn't vaccinated my child and they got measles I would know that their suffering would be my fault.

What about the children who are vaccinated but who aren't immune? They could also potentially pass it on to your baby. Should we perhaps not allow any children out of their house until we've tested their immunity?

Young babies used to be protected from measles by maternal antibodies. Antibodies from vaccinated mothers don't offer protection for as long.

Doesn't this come down to a "you can't prove a negative" argument? If there were proof that vaccines were dangerous then the (real, not Internet wannabe) media would be all over it. I don't have one scientist in my friend group who is anti-vacc. I see a lot of people who claim to be, in an arena where that cannot be checked, claiming to know better.

All I know is that in my peer group I knew no one who had whooping cough, measles, mumps etc.

I knew three people (children) who died of meningitis before the vaccine (I've known none since). I know one adult who died of chicken pox as an adult. I know three people who are pensioners and were disabled and in pain for life due to having polio as a child.

I know no one whose child changed in any way after vaccinations.

Now this isn't research. It's not statistically showing anything. But in the past few years whooping cough and measles have been local illnesses. I have been frightened my babies could contract them. I have been terrified for those who cannot immunise due to medical reasons.

These illnesses were practically non-existent where I live, and now they're back. Children who are not protected by vaccine will die. They will suffer preventable brain damage and death. It's only a matter of time. These illnesses were potentially fatal.

I would like every anti-vaccer to have to speak to someone who had polio as a child, or measles, or mumps or any of the illnesses we can prevent. I'd like them to speak to mothers who caught rubella whilst pregnant and to tell them "but there's a bit of aluminium in it"

It's so hard, because I don't think anyone has a right to do anything to anyone's child without their permission. But I also don't think that you have a right to endanger my child with your choices.

Could we have anti-vaccers schools? Where they couldn't join my child in class, but would have the same education. That way the school my child goes to has the benefit of herd immunity, and with fewer spaces to spread disease, even the antivaccers would get more protection. Obviously if there was an outbreak it would be disastrous for the antivacc school.

the annoying thing about non vaxxers is that they can only risk doing it because everyone else has vaccinated. if there were still polio outbreaks like there were when my dad was growing up, and everyone was terrified of it, then only a very very small percentage of anti vaxxers would still not vax.

When I say they will die, I don't mean all of them, but that complications will happen to some.

It is good to keep an open mind It is Italian, but not so open that your brains fall out.

the annoying thing about non vaxxers is that they can only risk doing it because everyone else has vaccinated

You're absolutely right.

FuckYouChris - the outbreaks in whopping cough aren't because people aren't vaccinating - the uptake for the vaccine is high. It's because immunity from the vaccine wanes much sooner than was originally thought. ( because the 'new' aP vaccine isn't as effective as the whole cell vaccine but has fewer side effects) the mumps component of the MMR vaccine was found to be not as effective as thought either - hence lots of outbreaks in students in university.

I had measles mumps and rubella as a child. (Old :) ) chicken pox too. What would you like to ask me?

It's quite interesting that people's anxieties about disease often seem to be dependent on which vaccines are on the schedule. Eg. Americans are much more concerned about CP than we tend to be in the UK because it's part of their schedule.

Outbreaks of* whooping cough

Didn't most of us posting here have measles and mumps as children?

I don't recall anyone dying.

My children are fully MMRd by the way - because if I can dodge a nasty illness I will - hence why we had the cpox vacc too.

But why was MMR introduced?

I'm presuming that all those in the NHS schedule vaccination camp all get themselves and their children vaccinated every year for flu?

Worldwide cases of polio in 2014 - 413 (54 vaccine related, 359 wild virus)
Worldwide cases of flu 2014 - WHO estimates in any year there are 3 to 5 million cases of severe illness, 250K - 500K deaths

Flu is the most dangerous vaccine preventable disease (and if herd immunity exists, also one that helps prevent flu spreading to vulnerable people) but somehow the flu vaccination is not mentioned as often.

Yes, thanks, we do. But its a poor analogy since the risk from flu to otherwise healthy children and adults in the west is minimal.
It is not at all the most dangerous vax preventable disease in those populations, you're stat-twisting (unsurprisingly)

From the World Health Organisation:

"Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available.
In 2013, there were 145 700 measles deaths globally – about 400 deaths every day or 16 deaths every hour.
Measles vaccination resulted in a 75% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2013 worldwide.
In 2013, about 84% of the world's children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday through routine health services – up from 73% in 2000.
During 2000-2013, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 15.6 million deaths making measles vaccine one of the best buys in public health."

I think I'll take their word for it.

FuckYouChris could ask me too. I had measles, rubella, chicken pox and whooping cough as a child. Measles and rubella before there were vaccines for them so they weren't an option. I am still alive and not, to my knowledge, brain damaged.

DH also had measles, mumps, chicken pox and whooping cough and is also still alive and not brain damaged. He's going deaf, but that is nothing to do with having measles 50 or more years ago.

countess I was referring to the herd immunity factor (which is often cited as a reason for vaccination) - the vulnerable are still very much at risk, even in the West.

silence I am aware of those figures, which is why I did choose to vaccinate my daughter against measles. I'm not anti-vaccination when there is a genuine serious risk from a disease.

"the risk from flu to otherwise healthy children and adults in the west is minimal"

Yet a new campaign to vaccinate all children is being rolled out. (Even if they did get the wrong strain this year)

The risk of many of these diseases to healthy children and adults is fairly minimal tbh.

Silence - also from the WHO "The overwhelming majority (more than 95%) of measles deaths occur in countries with low per capita incomes and weak health infrastructures."

"Vitamin A deficiency is a recognized risk factor for severe measles infections. The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends administration of an oral dose of vitamin A (200,000 international units (IU), or 100,000 IU in infants) each day for two days to children with measles when they live in areas where vitamin A deficiency may be present."

Yes, LaVolcan - I had Whooping cough too. Actually, many people have it without realising because the 'whoop' isn't usually present in adults.

Also from the same link from the WHO

The overwhelming majority (more than 95%) of measles deaths occur in countries with low per capita incomes and weak health infrastructures.

Measles outbreaks can be particularly deadly in countries experiencing or recovering from a natural disaster or conflict. Damage to health infrastructure and health services interrupts routine immunization, and overcrowding in residential camps greatly increases the risk of infection. I.e. fortunately not the situation in the UK/W Europe.

All children in developing countries diagnosed with measles should receive two doses of vitamin A supplements, given 24 hours apart. This treatment restores low vitamin A levels during measles that occur even in well-nourished children and can help prevent eye damage and blindness. Vitamin A supplements have been shown to reduce the number of deaths from measles by 50%.

So why don't we promote vitamin A therapy for children diagnosed with measles in the UK? Why not take all of the WHO's advice, and only some of it?

The WHO recommends vaccination.

Sorry, cross post with bumbley.

The WHO also recommends Vit A therapy, but this never seems to be promoted in the UK. Baby clinics used to give out Vitamins A, C, and D routinely, but this was stopped some time ago.