Declining 8 week vaccinations for my baby - experiences?

[Plasticpineapple]

I don't want this to be about whether you should or shouldn't vaccinate your baby. I have chosen not to and I'm looking for experiences from others who have done the same. What did you say? What did the doctor say? Did you discuss vaccination once the child was older or flat out decline all vaccines?

If any of you nice, sane people fancy a giggle, take a look at this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/vaccinations/2302719-Please-explain-succinctly-the-anti-vac-argument?msgid=52825005#52825005

I have been attacked from all sides, called heartless, uncaring and rude (which I may have been a wee bit tbh). The posters attack, and when attacked back with the statistical facts and logic, they ignore the points, fall back on rhetoric, or simply say 'well, I think this anyway, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary'. Either that, or stop posting.

Everyone (me especially) makes wrong decisions, and misjudges things. I have a director level job in a national organisation that funnily enough deals with heath, and involves a lot of decisions about how best to do things with limited resources. I allow my views to be changed by my team every day over something or other. I am not superwoman, and I won't always get it right first time; so we discuss how to get the best result. I am dismayed at the levels of selfishness and ignorance I have encountered; but worse than that, none of them have the wisdom or character to rethink something and maybe change their mind. What gets into these people, defending their utterly indefensible position to destruction, never admit they might be wrong, never rethink something. How do they get through life being like that? Vaccinations are critically important - unlike most laughable conspiracy theories; this one must be fought, as it will KILL if allowed to spread.

The shingles vaccine is part of the UK schedule now, but only to a very limited cohort of people (age dependent) and many are excluded because of contraindications. It's also an expensive vaccine so I'm in no doubt cost is a factor.

I think the risk is also to young adults contracting chickenpox themselves as vaccinating children may push chickenpox into an older cohort. Potentially working-age adults who may be much more unwell, or suffer the complications of wild chickenpox.

There's no easy answer.

Vlad I think I love you. This has been a crappy day and I logged into Facebook for a bit of light relief only to be confronted with yet another anti-vac diatribe from a raving lunatic sadly deluded acquaintance. Then I can here and read your posts and I feel just a little bit better. Thank you.

Sidge I'm totally not wanting to be argumentative but can I ask, re I think the risk is also to young adults contracting chickenpox themselves as vaccinating children may push chickenpox into an older cohort. Potentially working-age adults who may be much more unwell, or suffer the complications of wild chickenpox. Can you explain a bit more. i am not a medical person so I don't see why chickenpox would be pushed into older children. Surely the older children would either have caught it themselves and have immunity or have been vaccinated and not be catching it. Surely lots of children with chickenpox would be more of a risk to older children who had not had it?

I really am not medically trained, Vlad can you advise. Not that I would do anything different for my son, I had him vaccinated for him, but I am just confused. Thanks.

I know that having had chickenpox does not provide complete immunity as I have heard of someone who had chickenpox three times.

Italian I understand that 90% of humans contract chicken pox before the age of 10. For many it is a mild illness (not for my kids who had horrific times with it and one ended up in hospital). For teenagers and adults chicken pox is much worse. I had read that if you hadn't had chicken pox by age 10 you should vaccinate yourself. Having seen how unwell my children were and now knowing there is a vaccine I advise people to vaccinate from a young age.

it probably needs a booster in adulthood otherwise protection wears off and you risk catching it as an adult

vlad, I clicked on that thread but my blood pressure started creeping up, so I can't continue. It's just sheer, unadulterated, dangerous stupidity.

Words fail me.

Just watching a programme about vaccines on bbc4
It's talking about the eradication of smallpox.
I wonder if the op would have denied her child that vaccine too?...

My DC's nursery insists on parents taking in the red books to prove the children are up to date on vaccines. I have no idea what they do if vaccines aren't up to date.

I'm glad Vlad et al have brought some sense to this thread.

Woolly hugs - you mentioned at the start of thread about you contracting TB because your parents hadn't vaccinated you. TB is no longer a routine vaccination (and the BCG is actually not great at protecting against pulmonary TB - they are trying to develop a new vaccine). It would make sense for everyone to find out if there are any vaccinations recommended for travel abroad.

Vlad, interesting to see what you've written about the other thread here. I can't say I agree with how you're presenting the other posters or portraying yourself as a victim of attack given how you were posting. You don't come across as particularly well informed tbh. I'm surprised that people here are encouraging you.

Jeez, the scientific illiteracy on parts of this thread are astounding. Get your kids vaccinated. Alternative schedule if you like, I can totally get behind that, no problem, you're still protecting your kids and the wider community, plus WHO schedule isn't rigid. However, not vaccinating at all, unless clinically contraindicated, is highly dangerous. Honestly, spend a few days in paediatric ward in a place where vax aren't easily accessible and you'll change your mind.

Wicked lazy - are you sure it wasn't measles? German measles is rubella.

The cartoon about the cavemen doesn't really make sense. Unless you're suggesting that their limited lifespan was due to measles or something?

Re CP vaccine - there are disadvantages to this eg waning immunity that leaves you vulnerable as an adult when CP is more severe.

Re aluminium in vaccines - are you aware that the 'safe levels' were based on the safe oral levels? The safety of injecting it has been based on a study using a few rabbits (flarend et al iirc) and a trial on a single adult male. Perhaps not as well studied as you'd like to think.

Good posts from forago.

Re the single vaccines being imported. One of the single measles vaccines (rouvax) is manufacturered by the same manufacturer as the 5-in-1 (pediacel) Sanofi Pasteur. Are you worried about its safety?

Dixie - was that directed at me? I'd be interested to know why you think I'm stupid.

I'm amazed this is still such an issue. But then, my daughter is dead and my only son has autism.

'It's not black and white.'

I can promise you, death is.

"Vlad, interesting to see what you've written about the other thread here. I can't say I agree with how you're presenting the other posters or portraying yourself as a victim of attack given how you were posting. You don't come across as particularly well informed tbh. I'm surprised that people here are encouraging you."

Well, who'd have thunk it? Sensible people agreeing, and some even saying nice things about what I have written. Quite a lot in fact - maybe I am not the lone voice I was beginning to think I might be?

Seriously, I have broad shoulders - and I really don't feel attacked or victimised. I just feel sad that some posters on there felt it necessary to use their personal situation as some kind of personal attack trump card to snuff out debate, or views contrary to theirs. 'My child has ASD; how dare you defy me!' I also noticed that a great many points I made, or questions I asked simply go unanswered when they seem to me to be perfectly reasonable, and valid.

I am sorry that you feel that I don't come across as being reasonably well informed when it comes to vaccines, scientific rigour, statistical significance and the very real phenomena of mass hysteria. How is that exactly? I am always open to constructive criticism if it will help me get myself understood better. What 'X' factor piece of knowledge am I missing when it comes to vaccine safety?

"Re aluminium in vaccines - are you aware that the 'safe levels' were based on the safe oral levels? The safety of injecting it has been based on a study using a few rabbits (flarend et al iirc) and a trial on a single adult male. Perhaps not as well studied as you'd like to think."

Your source for that?

Are you classing them as 'sensible' because they agree with you?

Re being well informed - I can only judge based on what you've been writing on the other thread. Perhaps you could read some more about waning immunity to the pertussis vaccine and the absence of herd immunity to whiling cough as a result?

You also seem very unwilling to accept people's experiences of vaccine damage although you have admitted that it does occur. If all parents' accounts of bad reactions were dismissed/ignored/passed off as coincidence by doctors where would we be? Or is that what you think should happen to avoid 'mass hysteria'.

Just because it came straight after my post Dixie. That was all :)

expatinscotland I am sorry for your loss. You are right, death is black and white. All the words and all the squaring it up in your mind does nothing to change the essential truth of the matter does it?