Declining 8 week vaccinations for my baby - experiences?

[Plasticpineapple]

I don't want this to be about whether you should or shouldn't vaccinate your baby. I have chosen not to and I'm looking for experiences from others who have done the same. What did you say? What did the doctor say? Did you discuss vaccination once the child was older or flat out decline all vaccines?

drip drip drip til we all give up in despair

hurrah shout the anti-vaxxers. we won the debate

Great, you're anti-vac. You haven't articulated a single reason why people should vaccinate, just why people shouldn't. That's why I, and everyone else, think you're anti-vax.

OK Bumbley, what proportion of the population do you think are susceptible to damage and how did you arrive at this figure? How do you identify those individuals? Give me some reasons for vaccinating most the population, who aren't susceptible.

I think most of the population aren't susceptible to damage because large studies have shown that children who are vaccinated are no more likely to have autism/brain damage etc. than children who aren't. Why is that not enough for you?

I don't think the wild disease can trigger autism, nor do I think the vaccine can. There's no evidence for either. Why do you think the vaccine/wild disease can trigger autism? Which is more likely to trigger autism? Should one vaccinate to avoid getting the disease if it is more likely to trigger autism?

When, and under which circumstances should someone vaccinate their child?

I think you're hinting at some kind of unattainable situation where we can test for "susceptibility" to autism/whater. But there is no possible way atm to test for people's "susceptibility" to autism/brain damage or anything else, so you are functionally anti-vaccination as you think people should only vaccination if they know they are not susceptible to vaccine damage. Is that an accurate summary of your opinion? (Attempt 44 to find out Bumbley's views)

Hak, is there something I've said that is factually incorrect or do you just think certain information should be withheld from people? Personally I agree with people making informed decisions but each to their own.

Aly, I've already given some examples of where I did say people should vaccinate (more inaccuracy/assumptions on your part there).

You haven't told me how you came up with your 99.9% figure and how you plan to identify the 0.1% that you consider to be at risk. I've answered plenty of your questions. (Even though you didn't like the answers)

I haven't said that most of the population are susceptible to autism/brain damage (this isn't the only type of recognised vaccine damage btw - not sure why you're focussing on it specifically). You're the one who came up with the 99.9% figure and I'm just wondering where it came from. Did you just make it up?

"I don't think the wild disease can trigger autism, nor do I think the vaccine can. There's no evidence for either. "

So you don't agree with the study earlier that showed that contracting rubella during pregnancy increased the risk of developing autism?

"When, and under which circumstances should someone vaccinate their child?"

When they can make an informed decision that they think is best for their child and their family.

I don't think it's unattainable and I assume that the people currently researching it don't think it's unattainable either or they wouldn't waste their time.

I don't think people should only do anything. They can do whatever they feel comfortable with based on the information that they have. Some may choose to vaccinate, some may choose to delay/split vaccines and some may choose not to vaccinate at all.

"Hak, is there something I've said that is factually incorrect or do you just think certain information should be withheld from people? Personally I agree with people making informed decisions but each to their own."

Well, you have speculated, contrary to all the research that MMR could trigger autism in succptible people. In the interests of people making informed decisions please would you say what you are basing your speculation on?

You speculate that there are significant numbers of severe reactions to vaccines that are not reported. In the interests of people making informed decisions please would you say what you are basing your speculation on?

Hak, "contrary to all the research"

Do you have links to the studies showing vaccinated vs unvaccinated in susceptible children that Aly couldn't find?

I've already given you the link to the review discussing the reasons for under reporting so that's what I'm basing my 'speculation' on.

Can you answer some of my questions now?

Do you think that no severe reaction to a vaccine has ever gone unreported?

What was the 'significant number' of puncture wounds that developed tetanus pre-vaccine?

Just another heap of shit. All this crap boils down to
:There is a very very tiny chance that getting vaccinated can harm your child. If this tiny chance occurs, it's overwhelmingly likely that harm is minimal.
:All children should be vaccinated unless there is a PROVEN risk to them individually, based on accepted evidence that is relevant to them.

You keep wittering on and on about making "informed decisions", but they you bamboozle and distract with an awful lot of bullshit that has nothing to do with this.
Tha vast majority of parents don't need to make any kind of informed decision, other than accept that the overwhelming scientific and medical consensus of informed decision that says vaccinate your fucking kids.

Thats all parents need to know. Occasionally a parent will be told they shouldn't vaccinate. Then they should do that.

I know some people are so arrogant and full of themselves that they think they somehow better than EVERY SCIENTIST ON THE PLANET, but they don't. YOU don't.

Why don't you keep your opinions to yourself instead of going on and on and on on every single anti-vac thread, and then pretending you're not anti-vac? Do you get some perverse pleasure from it?

How do you find out that 'PROVEN individual risk' countess? When do you need to ask about it?

I'm not on every single vac thread btw. Haven't been on this board for months and there are several threads that I don't post on. Why don't you keep your opinions to yourself on these threads? The OP of this thread was asking for opinions from people who have chosen not to vaccinate. Did you just come on to bash her a bit?

What is 'minimal' harm btw? Are you considering minor reactions in that 'very very tiny chance of harm' that you were talking about?

Things like the child has been proven to already have an immune disorder, or cancer. Not your "maybe might possible if you squint have a theoretical predisposition to (insert random thing here).
You know, actually things.
No I came on here to bash anti-vaxxers, like you. You deserve it. Like I said, you're on a par with AIDS deniers.

anti-vaxxers - to me, you are playing with fire, dicing with death...pick your cliché.

I wish it was law for all dc to be vaccinated.

It strikes me those who decline/invent their own order of vaccine are trying to wrest back some control either from an issue in their own past...or maybe anxiety relating to their own dc
can any of you honestly look at yourselves and see that?

it's just so risky to not vaccinate that I can't explain it any other way.
ive not rtft as am short on time and high on stress with this issue.

Proven individual risk is auto immune disease, cancer, allergy.

And I find it very hard to belive thwt anyone whose child had a severe reaction to a vaccine, and might therefore need to access compensation in order to look after that child properly would not report it.

Yokohama study

Ok, so how/when is the immune disorder/cancer discovered prior to the 8 week old vaccines. Did you fill in a questionnaire or something? Answer questions about family history?

Why did you assume that my contraindications are theoretical ones (that you have to squint to see)?

I'm not an anti-vaxxer (although I guess the OP is so I guess you did come on to bash her). You're doing a pretty poor job of bashing me so far :)

RockingDuck - "I wish it was law for all dc to be vaccinated."

Interesting opinion most people seem to disagree with forced vaccination even when they are pro-vaccine in general. Which vaccines do you include in this? Just the ones on the UK schedule at the moment? The flu vaccine? What about the CP vaccine and other vaccines that other countries include in their schedule?

"it's just so risky to not vaccinate" Which disease in particular are you talking about?

Hak, again, how do you establish them before the 8 week appt?

Sorry Hak - why have you linked to a population study? What was that to prove?

Jeez Louise! Bumbley it's difficult to see how you are not an anti vaxer. I've never seen you post something that indicates people ought to vaccinate!

Correct my assumptions about your position and make it really clear. Say I'm the mother of an 8 week old - how could I find out if it was OK to vaccinate? You make it sound dangerous but as you're apparently not anti- vac you must have some kind of risk criteria for those that can/can't be vaxed.

99.9% was a way of indicating low risk. It's probably more like 99.99%, or even lower, given the rarity of severe vaccine reactions.

Again, What are your criteria for giving an 8 week old vaccinations? What proportion of the pop are at risk of vaccine damage? Which vaccinations are worth that risk?

You are speaking generally, so you can drop your concern for any medical decisions bystanders might make based on your opinions of vaccinations.

Would you describe yourself as a libertarian, Bumbley? Do you ever give advice on anything?

Hak, you still haven't answered my questions Re reaction reporting and puncture wounds.

I think if you're going to come on and 'bash' people for not coming to the same conclusions as you then you should be able to back up your statements.

Also, as I said before, AFAIK there is no way to know if a child is susceptible to autism. So instead we do studies of kids with and without vaccines and with and without MMR. These have found no link.

Rubella might cause autism if caught by an unvaccinated or unimmune pregnant woman. We know Rubella causes all manner if defects in utero. However I was talking about once the baby leaves the womb. Of course we know Measles can cause brain damage (my mother is semi-blind because of Measles). Do you think the vaccine is more dangerous than the wild virus for Measles, Bumbley?

Bumbley doesn't sit on the fence so much as chains herself to it, shrieking at passing bulldozers to do their worst to tip her one way or t'other.

I've never seen anyone commit themselves so fully to being impartial.

"I've never seen you post something that indicates people ought to vaccinate! "

Including the things that I posted upthread that you previously acknowledged?

I'm not the one telling her that she should vaccinate am I? How are you telling her that it's safe for her individual child? Where are you getting your information from?

I'm kind of hoping that you'll eventually see that actually, you are really in no position to bash someone because they make a different decision than you did. You don't know any more than they do. You both have access to the same information. You decide to take a 'risk' with the vaccine, they decide to take a 'risk' with the disease.

So you are just plucking figures out of the air then? Interesting. I doubt you'd let me do the same :)

Yes, I do give advice on some things. I wouldn't tell someone to vaccinate/not vaccinate though

Aly, so do you think it's a waste of time to try to find a way to identify them or not?

"Do you think the vaccine is more dangerous than the wild virus for Measles"

I don't know what the individual risk is. Do you?

it would perhaps be a good idea for parents to have to sign disclaimers when refusing vaccines
these could state the percentage risk of vaccine damage with the percentage risk of damage from the disease itself
plus an explanation about herd immunity
at least it would be a more informed decision

Sure. How do you calculate the percentage risk for the individual though?

hahahahaha
when dna tests are cheaper and/or you go private