Declining 8 week vaccinations for my baby - experiences?

[Plasticpineapple]

I don't want this to be about whether you should or shouldn't vaccinate your baby. I have chosen not to and I'm looking for experiences from others who have done the same. What did you say? What did the doctor say? Did you discuss vaccination once the child was older or flat out decline all vaccines?

And Bumbley - sorry for the extrapolation, but as you seem very hesitant to outline a position, I've looked through your posts as you suggested and have come to the conclusion that this is your position. Feel free to correct if I'm wrong...

"Vaccines are generally completely unncessary as all the diseases they protect against are harmless. Vaccination is only warranted if you have not picked up immunity at an age at which these harmless childhood diseases become harmful. In addition to this I also think vaccines cause all manner of unpleasant side effects which are much worse than these harmless childhood diseases."

Is that correct?

vlad, did you just google 'personalised medicine' read the first definition and write your post? You know that we already use personalised medicine don't you? I'm not sure which definition you came across but this might help you a bit:

"It is not about creating medicines unique to a patient, but rather the ability to classify individuals into subpopulations that differ in their susceptibility to a particular disease or their response to a specific treatment. Preventive or therapeutic interventions can then be concentrated on those who will benefit, sparing expense and side effects for those who will not"

Do you disagree with that approach? Sorry your 50 years comment really made me . Clearly you have no idea about what is going on at the moment.

Not everyone chooses to 'minimise their risk' to flu clearly - even pro vaccinators. I think you're confusing yourself here because you keep quoting things out of context and going off on tangents.

RE 1918 flu pandemic

Here

Here

Here

"The flu killed healthy people more often than the young or old by triggering cytokine storms."

Read the above.

"It is meaningless when used as a 'get out of jail free' and employed to try and destroy the conclusions of studies that have been peer-reviewed and accepted. 'I don't accept those numbers because you have not asked every person in the UK what they think'."

I haven't tried to 'destroy conclusions of any studies' ( did you have some in particular in mind?) I have just pointed out that due to under reporting the figures for reactions aren't necessary accurate. It's not about 'asking everyone what they think"

"Your lack of any ability to admin(sic) even the tiniest mistake in any of your logic, conclusions, or generalisations throughout this speaks volumes."

I'd be happy to admit I've made mistakes if you point them out for me. It would have to be a mistake though and not just something you personally disagree with. I see you glossed over your own 'standard deviation to measure significance' mistake though :)

RE the Al levels. Bit of a cop out there. If I asked you whether the 'Wakefield study' that looked at 12 children had enough data to suggest that the MMR vaccine triggered autism you would have no problem in expressing your opinion on the small sample size. However you are not qualified to express an opinion on whether 4 rabbits and one adult male provide enough information to determine 'safe' levels of injected Aluminium? Interesting.

I think the poster on the other thread had you exactly. You're all bluster and very little substance and the cracks are beginning to show. I'm not surprised that you're bowing out now before everyone sees through you.

wherethewildthingis - I sincerely hope that as a social worker, you look at the whole picture and the reasons behind why the person has chosen not to vaccinate or to vaccinate to a different schedule. It's certainly not always because of 'trendy bloody woo fake science".

Bore - do you think the vaccine is the only way to prevent tetanus?

re the issue with distribution - single dose vials etc. Microneedles are a potential alternative - lower cost to produce and easier and safer to store/distribute and administer. A friend of mine is researching them at the moment. I think they look great :)

Alyosha - telling someone to get their child's eyes/ears/teeth checked isn't really the same as telling someone to vaccinate their child when you have no idea of their medical history etc. If someone has made a different decision re vaccination(as long as it is informed) then I'm not going to force them/insult them/accuse them of being irresponsible etc.

I'm not against the schedule as such. I just don't think it's the only/best way to go about things. There are issues with it (Most people do acknowledge that) and I think it could definitely be improved.

No, your summary is not correct :)

Why reference the 1918 flu? Nothing at all like the flu's we see over the last decades, and a complete irrelevance?

I also don't get all the wittering about single vaccines, such a big waste of time. As if it makes the slightest difference whether you give 3 at once or 3 at different times, the notion of overloading the immune system is illogical bullhockey.

This topic shouldn't even be here, its just an exercise is shite-wading futility.

Vlad mentioned it countess. Ask her why she brought it up. (If she comes back)

Although I actually think it may have been in response to (your?) earlier post about flu not usually be that big a risk to otherwise healthy people.

"
I'm not against the schedule as such. I just don't think it's the only/best way to go about things. There are issues with it (Most people do acknowledge that) and I think it could definitely be improved."

What issues?
Now could it be improved?

Bumbleymummy- do you think there are a significant number of children who have had severe reactions to routine vaccinations where this has not been reported?

Bumbleymummy- do you think MMR vaccine causes autism?

Issues with scheduling/effectiveness for example. (We've discussed these already).

How it could be improved - effectiveness e.g. for whooping cough and mumps. Whether it's from a different vaccine or from improving the method of delivery. (e.g. micro needle delivery has resulted in better immune response in trials)

Hak, yes, I think that it is very likely that there has been under reporting of severe reactions to vaccinations given the issues that there clearly are with the reporting system. Do you not think it is even a possibility?

No, I don't think the MMR vaccine causes autism :) Does anyone here think that?

Bumbleymummy- do you think the MMR triggers autism?

Would you mind outlining the bits you disagree with?

So you do agree with telling someone to vaccinate if, like 99.9% of the population, they have no history of adverse vaccine reaction in their family?

Excellent!

And I'm delighted that you agree that Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Pertussis, Diptheria and Tetanus are not harmless childhood illnesses, and are things that we should vaccinate against with our highly, effective and safe vaccines before children can contract them and suffer the consequences.

Very heartening.

Also delighted see you acknowledge that vaccines have nothing to do with the onset of autism.

HappyGoLuckyGirl that is a brilliant link. The sad reality is that no matter how many facts you put in front of some people they will never see through their own selfish beliefs. They can't understand that their choices have a wider impact than their own children's health.

Andrew Wakefield has a lot to answer for IMO, I have a normally level headed friend who paid for separate vaccines for MMR for her DCs because she wouldn't be convinced that the single vaccine was safe.

Hak, I don't know. Do you? I would consider it a possibility (along with many other things) in certain susceptible individuals.

Alyosha, as I said earlier, I wouldn't tell anyone to vaccinate or not vaccinate.

Where have I agreed the above? Just wondering because, as I've already said, rubella is usually a very mild childhood illness so I'm wondering what consequences you are suggesting that children will suffer if they contract it.

"Also delighted see you acknowledge that vaccines have nothing to do with the onset of autism."

No, I said that I don't think vaccines cause autism. :)

Well you said that I incorrectly outlined your views. I said that you thought Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Pertussis etc. were mild childhood illnesses. You said that did not reflect your views. Hence me thinking that you did think that they were serious childhood illnesses not to be laughed at!

Please explain the difference between the two statements?

"Hak, I don't know. Do you? I would consider it a possibility (along with many other things) in certain susceptible individuals."

Why?

You seem to be telling people that there is no possible way they can know if their child is suitable to vaccinate, putting it at risk of autism/brain damage etc. I think you are outlining a pretty hefty case not to vaccinate.

What are the reasons to vaccinate?

And what have I got wrong about your views? (I was right about you thinking Rubella is a mild childhood illness, wasn't I?)

Could wild Rubella trigger autism in "certain susceptible individuals" Bumbley?

Why do you think it likely that there are a significant number of unreported severe vaccine reactions?

"Vaccines are generally completely unncessary as all the diseases they protect against are harmless. Vaccination is only warranted if you have not picked up immunity at an age at which these harmless childhood diseases become harmful. In addition to this I also think vaccines cause all manner of unpleasant side effects which are much worse than these harmless childhood diseases."

This is the summary you gave. I said it was incorrect.(Far too generalised and too many assumptions) What you've tried to deduce from that is inaccurate.

Re autism - see other posts to Hak. Can you really not see a difference between the two statements? Strange.