Declining 8 week vaccinations for my baby - experiences?

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I don't want this to be about whether you should or shouldn't vaccinate your baby. I have chosen not to and I'm looking for experiences from others who have done the same. What did you say? What did the doctor say? Did you discuss vaccination once the child was older or flat out decline all vaccines?

OK, bumbley. I really don't know what you are saying.

What it looks as if you're doing is dropping seeds of doubt in people's minds. It looks like a very clever, subtle anti vaccination campaign. It looks as if you're putting forward an anti vaccination point of view, then rapidly reeling it back the minute you're challenged. It looks as thought you will never answer a direct question about your own opinion. It looks as though you are the acceptable face of the anti vaxxers.

Either, Bumbley is saying that there are "some" (we don't know how many) cases of severe vaccine reaction that not reported to the doctor by parents - so a child in need of medical care, but the parents don't seek it.

Or, Bumbley is saying there are "some" (we don't know how many) cases of severe vaccine reaction that the doctor's treat - but don't report as vaccine reaction, when it is. Why do you think the medical profession would do this?

The latter is slightly stepping into 'conspiracy theory' territory - and that is something I see in the anti-vax campaign a lot.

But Hak's right - Bumbley spends a lot of time on these threads dropping hints, but never saying anything outright.

*doctors

So if you're pro-vac, have read and understood all studies, vaccinated your children having made an educated decision, why on earth would you post things that could make those less able to discern fact from fiction and understand relative risk, less likely to vaccinate?

vaccination schedules are designed by those who are experts in the field. I trust that they will know more than I do on the subject no matter what I read. That doesn't make me stupid and naive. It means I rely on specialists in all aspects of my life. An architect designed my home, an electrician wired it, builders built it, carpenters did their bits, etc etc. If I had a specific medical problem I would rely on the correct specialist to diagnose me. I'd read up on all of the above, and I'd ask questions etc, but I wouldn't assume that I knew more than the person who has spent decades studying and working in the field.

There are supposedly children with major vaccine damage whose parents haven't reported it? Bollocks. When people believe this to be the case, generally with zero evidence, they don't shut up about it. They roam around boards like these trying to persuade other people not to vaccinate.

Countess, anon didn't say that the vaccines cause autism. She was accepting the possibility that in certain susceptible individuals they could potentially act as a trigger.

That is an example of the subtle scaremongering. The possibility.... certain individuals.... potentially....autism... trigger....

Thats the same thing, in essence, couched in a lot of maybes...

bumbleymummy

"Vlad, you were by no means an innocent party on that other thread. No one is obliged to accept an 'apology' from you."

Never said she was. I was pointing out that the way she reacted, and the way she dealt with the situation afterwards showed the sort of person she is. I have been sent links to other threads in the past where the same thing has happened (almost the same words). I feel better about it now - I am not the first and I won't be the last to be on the receiving end. Anyway, my issues with her are nothing whatsoever to do with you, so let's stop bringing her up?

"Vlad, if you're interested look up 'personalised medicine'. Sounds like you could learn a lot." Ah yes, that nebulous 'future' possibility when we tailor treatments to individual genetic profiles. Yes, we are clearly moving that way - in the next 50 years we may have even got the technology to be able to realistically do it on a population scale.

I had just as well post rubbish proclaiming that the 'energy crisis is over', as 'one day we will perfect nuclear fusion'.

"Re risks to healthy people. You know that saying that something is of minimal risk doesn't mean no risk at all don't you? Yes, otherwise healthy people can get ill too."

I do. But as you are so fond of saying, there is always a risk ain't there? Is it not best to minimise those risks as much as possible by vaccinating? You do support vaccines don't you?

"You know that most people in the 1918 flu epidemic does from pneumonia?"

Oh really? Source?

"Not to mention what else was going on at that time which would certainly have had an impact on people's health."

The flu killed healthy people more often than the young or old by triggering cytokine storms.

"Under reporting is meaningless? So the studies mean nothing and the people who are trying to improve it are wasting their time? Interesting opinion. I don't agree with you."

It is meaningless when used as a 'get out of jail free' and employed to try and destroy the conclusions of studies that have been peer-reviewed and accepted. 'I don't accept those numbers because you have not asked every person in the UK what they think'.

"You showed no sympathy towards the other poster because you didn't believe her."

And another hum-dinging sweeping generalisation. The first poster accused me of not showing sympathy towards her child. I showed little sympathy to her as she was behaving very aggressively towards someone who dared to disagree (and not for the first time it appears).

"Your little exchange with Anon there didn't make any sense seeing as I just pointed out that you were showing her sympathy compared to how you treated someone else not too long ago."

It makes perfect sense if you assume that I am a reasonable person with feelings just like anyone else. I thought you had an open mind, or do you think it acceptable for random posters to accuse me of having no empathy/feelings for their sick child without any provocation (she posted the first comment; I had no idea who she was before she posted). Anon behaved perfectly politely towards me, so why should I not be polite? The point she made has merit - it must be horrendous to have a child with ASD to that extent. The difference is that she is not using the awful situation to try and silence all dissent.

Apologise, or don't it makes no difference to me. Your lack of any ability to admin even the tiniest mistake in any of your logic, conclusions, or generalisations throughout this speaks volumes.

bumbleymummy Sun 01-Mar-15 08:19:11

"Unanswered question for vlad from this thread. (I've put a few others on the other thread for you)" Dealt.

"Do you think the data from those studies I mentioned in relation to Al safety levels are adequate?"

Not qualified to answer that. What I can say is that the CDC, Europe, and indeed worldwide authorities and medical professionals all seem to believe that the methodologies for setting the Al limits are correct. Or, are they all wrong, and you correct? I thought you were pro-vaxx?

Hakluyt Sun 01-Mar-15 09:00:00

"OK, bumbley. I really don't know what you are saying.

What it looks as if you're doing is dropping seeds of doubt in people's minds."

Bingo! That is exactly what she is doing.

"It looks like a very clever, subtle anti vaccination campaign. It looks as if you're putting forward an anti vaccination point of view, then rapidly reeling it back the minute you're challenged."

Not particularly clever - just totally irresponsible. I see MPs doing the same sort of thing in interviews.

"It looks as thought you will never answer a direct question about your own opinion. It looks as though you are the acceptable face of the anti vaxxers"

Ouch! Got called on it though.

In America all children are required to show proof of vaccinations prior to starting school. No cert, no place

Time to call it a day:

I have tired of this now, so it is time to scale down my contributions to the vaccines threads for a while.

Nothing we say is ever going to change the closed mind of the anti-vaxxer; I have never seen it happen in all the years I have been fighting bigotry and conspiracy wack-jobs. It is something I see time and time again with:

• religious zealots
• anti-vaxxers
• conspiracy theorists
• people with diagnosable mental health disorders (not that I am saying you must have this to be any or all of the first 3!)

They KNOW of the unalterable 'rightness' of their crusade, and the fight they must carry to those who defy them. How fighty they get depends on how close they are to being diagnosable; generally the more threatening they are, the closer they are to it; and the more fun they can be to talk with! It is nice to combine doing some good with having a bit of fun - and trying to knock some sense into threads that were becoming way too cosy; with the loud-mouth 'Royalty' (not my words) snuffing out any attempts to inject realism and science into the discussions.

I will look back in on the vaccine threads occasionally. I fully expect to see some wack-jobs on here continuing to post their half-baked 'opinions'; and I may just occasionally jump in and try and save someone from killing their child, if one of the other gratifyingly large band of sensible ladies on here has not already done it before me.

It has been fun, but work tomorrow, and I have not planned detailed work schedules for March yet for the team. Doh!!

Threads like this always make me think
Of this www.theonion.com/articles/i-dont-vaccinate-my-child-because-its-my-right-to,37839/

love it

"It seems like all they care about is following unexamined old rules, injecting chemicals into our kids, preventing ghastly illnesses that used to ravage millions and have since been erased from storming back and wreaking mass havoc on a national scale, and making a buck. Should we really be listening to them and not our own hearts?"

Agreeding with vladimpaler. My doctor said the same thing. And used scare tactics to emotionally put the fear of God and doubt into me, in order to get my LO vaccinated.

Agreeing with your next point, that sort of doctor should be struck off.

my mistake. Just norice vladimpaler copied quotes from someone elses comment. Acutaully agrew with the other persons comment vladimpaler copied from. My doctor was not supportive of my choice, not to vaccinate my child. Luckily, I have a few doctors and bio-medical scientist in my inner circle, who could speak freely on this matter, in order for me to make an informed choice. I am very happy I have not vaccinated my children at all. They they turned out very healthy, with strong immune systems, allergie-free too.

"d. Luckily, I have a few doctors and bio-medical scientist in my inner circle, who could speak freely on this matter," What did they say?

'hey they turned out very healthy, with strong immune systems, allergie-free too."
So you think this is because they are not vaccinated?

"They turned out very healthy with strong immune systems" better

I really hope your DC continue to be so healthy and that you get away with late vaccination as we did - I changed my mind recently and got my DC fully up to date with theirs

But I just wanted to say that in any family things can be seemingly going along just swimmingly and it can all change in a moment

My view now is to do everything you can to protect the health of both your own DC and of others, and there doesn't have to be any conflict in that.

This will be my last post on the matter but I think it would be worth mentioning the peer reviewed study which was conducted at the university of Columbia which says that the developing brain is uniquely susceptible to damage. I think this is why some people prefer to wait until their child is a little older before vaccinations. I also think that people lose faith in the authorities when their policies don't quite seem to add up, like when the 5 in 1 was introduced, it was supposedly all about oral polio. And some people felt that it was more likely to be about the removal of the Mercury preservative in the vaccine but felt that they maybe didn't want to admit that.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15184908

Here for anyone interested.

"In 2004, Hornig published a controversial paper concluding that, in a highly inbred strain of mice which is unusually susceptible to autoimmune disease, administration of thimerosal resulted in the development of autism-like symptoms; specifically, "growth delay; reduced locomotion; exaggerated response to novelty; and densely packed, hyperchromic hippocampal neurons with altered glutamate receptors and transporters."[12][13] In addition, in an interview with the Los Angeles Times, Hornig contended that thimerosal may be linked to the recent increases in the incidence of autism.[14] However, Paul Offit has accused Hornig of overstating her findings, arguing that her study was "a far cry from proving that thimerosal caused autism in children,"[15] and Steven Goodman, a member of the IOM panel that rejected a thimerosal-autism link in 2004, shortly before Hornig's study was published, has claimed that this study "in no way substitutes for actual human evidence."[16] Additionally, researchers from the University of California, Davis were unable to reproduce Hornig's results despite using the same strain of mice and ten times the amount of mercury used in Hornig's study.[17]"

Sorry for the C&P anonimousy- but this refers to the study you cited.

Sorry about the wall of text. This is, I think the crucial sentence -"Additionally, researchers from the University of California, Davis were unable to reproduce Hornig's results despite using the same strain of mice and ten times the amount of mercury used in Hornig's study.[17]"

I'm reluctant to weigh in and haven't read the full thread, just a few pages. As a social worker, one of the questions on our assessment is whether the child is up to date with their vaccinations. If they are not we view that as neglect of the child's health needs- which it is.I also work with very vulnerable children who are often at risk from children who have not been vaccinated.

I cannot believe how bloody stupid trendy bloody woo middle class mummies can be with your stupid fake science. You have some basic jobs as a parent, this is one of them. You should all be ashamed.

^I am very happy I have not vaccinated my children at all. They they turned out very healthy, with strong immune systems, allergie-free too.^

Not vaccinated your children at all ??

Ever heard of tetanus? For god's sake, educate yourself.