Declining 8 week vaccinations for my baby - experiences?

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I don't want this to be about whether you should or shouldn't vaccinate your baby. I have chosen not to and I'm looking for experiences from others who have done the same. What did you say? What did the doctor say? Did you discuss vaccination once the child was older or flat out decline all vaccines?

these always go the same way.

There is no easy answer and ALL of us want to protect our children, and secondarily, to assist with herd immunity if we feel it doesn't compromise our own children's safety to do so.

That's right - all of us. I'd put money on that.

The one sticking point is that none of us has enough information to really know if, or to what degree, we are putting our children at risk through either course of action (vaxing or not vaxing).

indeed even the scientists and doctors haven't quite got enough information, because advice tends to change from time to time as do estimates of effectiveness and so on.

So can we try not to fight please? We all love our children and wish the best for each other's children too. It's just - we don't know how best to achieve that so we're shooting in the dark, trying to make the best decisions we can with limited data and resources, mixed experiences and terrible fears.

Can we just cool it then?

"indeed even the scientists and doctors haven't quite got enough information, because advice tends to change from time to time as do estimates of effectiveness and so on."

Does it? Show me where medical advice has changed on the desirability of vaccination for the vast majority of people.

really the problem is that a lot of people have no clue about statistics, measuring risk, or science, but are happy to make important decisions on their childens behalf (that also affect the wider community) on the basis of pseudo-science

There is no easy answer and ALL of us want to protect our children, and secondarily, to assist with herd immunity if we feel it doesn't compromise our own children's safety to do so.

Actually I've never given a single thought to herd immunity. I've never even heard anyone talk about it outside of Mumsnet. I honestly would never think "Well, I'm not entirely happy about him having this vaccine but I'll do it anyway in order to protect all those pregnant strangers and unknowns with compromised immune systems."

I don't think most people are so altruistic.

I would never go against my instinct regarding my own child simply to protect yours. I don't believe I am alone on thinking that way.

I have MMRd my children because I don't want them to get those illnesses. No other reason. I'd be far happier if they took the Rubella part away and reverted to giving it to teenage girls only.

I disagree with you Patter. It's not some huge mystery of what is the best way. It boils down to whether you think you know better than scientists and doctors from many many pieces of real scientific research or whether you trust your own opinion informed from your knowledge.

There are cases where vaccines and problems are linked. But there are also cases where the illness itself and problems are linked. The scientific community is better able to assess these than most of us are as individuals. Based on this wider knowledge they advise an approach. I don't see how someone can trust the anecdotes they hear over real scientific data. And therefore I do think it is dangerous to peddle a story at odds with the scientific data.

"I would never go against my instinct regarding my own child simply to protect yours. I don't believe I am alone on thinking that way."

We are in real trouble when people make decisions about medical issues based on "instinct". We are definitely then in "u know ur bubs best hun" territory, however much it's dressed up with talk of "research".

Carla thank goodness the WHO don't think like you!

Here's to polio eradication in the near future. I'll be well chuffed when that occurs.

After the eight week jabs, DS2 had the only six-hour stretch of sleep he has ever had in his eleven months of life so far.

I wish more vaccinations were available.

On a more serious note, herd immunity is really important in my view and it's certainly a factor in my willingness to have my healthy babies vaccinated at negligible risk to them (they were far more likely to come to harm on the journey to the surgery than as a result of the jab) in order to contribute to the protection of the wider population. In the same way that I'm delighted to pay taxes for the benefit of society and I'd happily pay more to maintain a welfare state, the NHS and education for everyone.

My sister caught measles at 5 days old and was intensive care for 3 weeks because my mum decided not to vaccinate me. She brought a 5 day old baby into a home with a child with a current infection as someone told her that natural immunity is better - my sister nearly died!

countessmarky - you know that this isn't the same mr vaccine that was used originally don't you? The original one contained the urbane strain of mumps and had to be withdrawn because of side effects. Interestingly, those side effects were already known and other countries had stopped using it when the UK decided to introduce it. The same side effects occurred (unsurprisingly) and it was withdrawn here too. MmrII introduced in 1992 iirc.

DidThatJustHappen - I haven't said anywhere that people shouldn't vaccinate.

Vlad, I'm quite fond of science myself actually :)

Silence - what have my views about abortuon got to do with this thread? (You've misrepresented them too - unsurpringly) so, tell me how serious rubella is for a pregnant woman who is immune to it? Either through having the vaccine or having having the disease itself?

Alanna, that sounds like a sensible approach. It's a shame people aren't more understanding about the fact that vaccines/the vaccine schedule aren'/isn't always suitable for everyone.

Which questions have you asked me that I haven't answered vlad? There's a few of mine on the other thread that you haven't answered - you kind of scooted round them and kept having goes at pagwatch instead.

Herd immunity is very important in protecting society and people who can't be vaccinated - but ultimately vaccination protects the child who is vaccinated - as it protects a high percentage of them from catching the illnesses at all.

"Which questions have you asked me that I haven't answered vlad? "

Well, I can't speak for vlad- but I would like to know whether you are pro or anti vaccination.

"ndeed even the scientists and doctors haven't quite got enough information, because advice tends to change from time to time as do estimates of effectiveness and so on."

Patter, very true.

Hak, has anyone said that it isn't safe for the majority of people? It's identifying the ones that it isn't safe for that needs to be improved and that starts with actually recognising that reactions can and do occur and improving reporting and investigation of those reactions.

AuntieDee - had your mum not had measles herself?

I'd like to know if Bumbley has vaccinated her children.

Herd immunity was certainly a factor in my decision to vaccinate my children. I didn't like the idea of someone sticking a needle in my babies and injecting them with a load of alien stuff. I have had a very bad reaction to a vaccination myself. However, the risks of vaccines are minimal and I for one would like to see diseases eradicated wherever possible.

The fact is that if my children contracted these diseases the risks of permanent health problems, either to them or to others they pass it to, is far higher than the risk of a negative reaction to a vaccination. Far higher. I'm sorry but I couldn't in all conscience send my children into a childcare setting with younger babies, who are too young to be vaccinated, without having my children vaccinated.

Anti-vaccers seem to find it impossible to believe that we could put other people's needs into the equation when deciding whether or not to vaccinate our children, but it is indeed possible. I can't stand this "I'm alright jack" attitude. They say they balance the risk of vaccinations against the minimal risk of their children contracting these diseases, but the reason their children have a minimal risk of contracting measles et al is because WE DO VACCINATE. They coast along on our coat tails and still try to claim some sort of moral high ground. It's shameful. Obviously I don't pass judgment on people who don't vaccinate for genuine medical reasons, but those people make it even more important that those who can vaccinate do so.

but the reason their children have a minimal risk of contracting measles et al is because WE DO VACCINATE. They coast along on our coat tails and still try to claim some sort of moral high ground. It's shameful.

Quite. Vaccination is practically a victim of it's own success.

Not answering the question, I see, bumbley.

Right.nanother question. Where is your evidence that reactions to vaccines are under reported?

Hak, I'm not anti-vaccine. I just don't agree with the one-size fits all approach to them just as I don't agree with a one-size-fits all approach to medicine in general.

Sorry for delay - working through posts while cleaning! :)

"ndeed even the scientists and doctors haven't quite got enough information, because advice tends to change from time to time as do estimates of effectiveness and so on."

Another question.

When has medical advice changed about the desirability of vaccination?

Hak, under reporting of reactions in general is a very well known issue. I've linked to papers before that show the reasons for it and they are trying to address them.

"When has medical advice changed about the desirability of vaccination?"

Has anyone says it has?

Although vaccine schedules, spacings and which vaccines are used do change from time to time and vary from country to country. People just tend to think that whatever they are familiar with is the 'right' way.

Why do you wriggle so much, bumbleymummy?

Somebody says that medical advice about vaccination changes. You agree. What are you agreeing with?