MMR - is anyone here absolutely convinced that mmr caused autism/adverse reaction to a child they know?

[Jahan]

I don't want to start an mmr debate. I'm just interested in that question.

Mummypumpkin - where about's do you live roughly? There are lots of clinics who do single vaccines now and most of them also do outreach clinics in far fetched places too.

The cost varies greatly, but I wouldn't pay more than £80-£90 per. jab myself(some clinics charge over £200). Its expensive yes, but in my view, worth it to avoid any risk.

please don't get me started on Andrew Wakefield fatfox

why don't they still do rubella at the onset of puberty in secondary school?

is it really just because of the triple jab contract? i.e. drugs company develops the triple jab, therefore it is easier and more convenient to do it that way? is there a good medical reason for it?

and before anyone says it's about not missing anyone (i.e. girls that aren't at school that day) i'm sure less girls would be missing than is currently the case with MMR.

why don't they still do rubella at the onset of puberty in secondary school?

is it really just because of the triple jab contract? i.e. drugs company develops the triple jab, therefore it is easier and more convenient to do it that way? is there a good medical reason for it?

and before anyone says it's about not missing anyone (i.e. girls that aren't at school that day) i'm sure less girls would be missing than is currently the case with MMR.

I think, the (stated) reason is to try and bring about "herd immunity" or at least reduce the risk of rubella being passed around the population. particualrly since so many of the adult population of women do not have immunity to rubella. (my aunt was an immigrant, btw, and had never been immunised under the secondary school programme before she got pregnant. there are for sure lots of people in that sitation)

Its bizarre isn't it, that once you're pregnant you get a blood test to find out if you're immune to Rubella? It would make much more sense to offer it to all teenage girls, as used to be the case.

ooops, starting to sound like a grumpy old woman

why is that bizarre, fatfox? the test is usually done at booking in. and if there is no immunity, then a vaccination is offered.
however, the really dangerous time, i.e. the time when most damage would be caused to the baby, is in the first trimester, before the test is done

I actually had a rubella imunity test before I started ttc. I requested it because I wasn' sure if I'd been faxinated against it as I grew up in South Africa and things are done differently over there. so you can request that you're tested before you embark on ttc.

Attached to my school though was a deaf and blind unit, and the majority of those children were mmr damaged. They had no sight, no vision, and most had very severe learning difficulties.

Just re the rubella thing, my DS has autism so of course I get the whole dabate, but my Mum contracted Rubella at 10 weeks pg and had to ahve her pregnancy terminated due to extreme foetal damage imcompatible with life. I'd much rather have an autistic child than a dead one (and Mum had already ahd 4 stillbirths at that point- though she went on to have the three of us)

The damge done by Rubella and other diseases is definite, hard core reality

Wannabe - H. Do you mean MMR damaged or Rubella damaged? You were very organised to get the blood test before ttc

I had rubella as a child, and I think I was vaccinated against it as a teenager. the after my first pg blood test, they said I had very low immunity to it. We live in an area of low MMR take-up, and I spent my pg very anxious that I could catche rubella from one of the many large groups of young people I come into contact with as part of my job.

I got my rubella immunity checked before ttc as well. I wish they would spend more money promoting that idea tbh-, especially if they're giving rubella to baby girls rather than teenage girls (more chance of immunity waning, especially with fewer exposures now).

I'm no fan of MMR, would far rather see single jabs, but absolutelty believe that it is essential women of childbearing age are protected against rubella. not remotely convinced that the current system is optimised to do that though.

ds1 caught rubella from a vaccinated child - which is why I do think they should promote the idea of checking immunity before ttc- I only knew about it because a friend had done it 5 years before, so I knew it was possible.

A lot of "low" takeup areas of MMR are high take up areas of single jabs- and I think many suppliers of single jabs get you to have rubella first, then measles (to ensure that the rubella one is given).

oops I meant rubella damaged ff

I have seen a friend of mine sit by the hospital bed of her 12 month old dd, otherwise very healthy never had any immunity problems, who was so very very sick with measles. She had not opted out of having the MMR, she was booked in to have it the week after. She caught it from nursery, where there were a number of unvaccinated children. I am sure she would be the first to tell you that measles is not a minor illness. Her doc said it was the start of the herd principle failing - if you stop vaccinating the older ones in the herd the little ones get sick.

Incidence of measles in our area has trebled in recent years and I would have avoided people who chose not to vaccinate their children when mine was unprotected.

I had mumps lst year, caught it from Uni- definitely issues with herd immunity (as a mature student didn't come under the Uni vaccination plan)

(JimJams- got the stuff from Sunderland today. £60, quite scary how many of the boxes I had to tick on the questionnaire. Hdn't realised it was for casein too- not the first time this has been raised with Sam or me, as our lactose restrictin hasn't removed symptoms properly, yet couldn't get any info on it before)

Hi - I agree with JimJams - with a bit of tweaking, the system could be a lot more efficient in protecting women/girls post puberty from rubella, ditto teenage boys from mumps.

I can't accept MMR for DS and DD due to the families I know whose children have been damaged, but instead have ended up having to pay for expensive single vaccines instead. I've had to pay for them on my credit card sometimes too as our budget is tight, and its tricky remembering to go back and book the next one. The clinic we go to DH2000 are fairly responsible in that they sign you up for all three and and if you don't want all three, they insist on proof you've had them elsewhere. (i.e. we had to provide proof that we'd had the NHS Rubella for DS, nefore DH2000 would accept us for the Measles and Mumps)

the problem is fatfox that not everyone in the adult population will have been to school here, so you can't guarantee protection that way.

For everything you do there is an equal and opposite reaction.

I've been through long and heart felt agonising about whether to vaccinate my ds and there are some extremely well informed people on MN [eg Jimjams!] who have helped me in my [ongoing] decision no end. My ds has specific and originally severe gut problems which have led me [with a lot of reading and debating] not to do MMR , and to delay singles. But I am a bit shocked at the level of assumptions, and as I see it, flippancy on this thread. I had measles as an 11 year old and was hospitalized with it. I was well nourished and pretty healthy. Measles can be an awful disease. And as Jimjams has pointed out, the actual percentage of those vulnerable to damage from MMR is tiny, and the percentage of autism cases probably caused by MMR is small - around 7%. It seems that those vulnerable have existing health problems, eg auto immune disorders or gut/bowel problems. I think there should be more research to identify who may be vulnerable, but it seems either people think all vaccines are good and can do no harm, or that they are all bad and can only harm. There is a middle ground, I think.

my aunt died of polio as a small child, and that also reminds me how deadly some diseases can be. Glad the vaccine is no longer live tho.

Hi ALL

I know money is often tight, but def recommend getting single vaccinations done. You only need to go on the jabs forum for vaccinating and see how many children have been damaged by the combined mmr. not worth risking your childrens health for a couple of hundred pounds.

J

Message withdrawn

Essbee if there was any official acknowledgment that this was mmr related then they'd have half the country suing them. That's why they deny it and will deny it for many years to come. Perhaps the truth will come out at some point, I hope so.