Son has measles

[melodiousmoan]

Why do people not vaccinate their kids? My child has been vaccinated but only had his first lot as is 20 months. He has contracted measles. I chose to vaccinate him against this. Ill advised people that think if they dont vaccinate there's only a slim chance your child will get this disease you're wrong. You're increasing everyone's chance of contracting the illness by ruining the herd immunity that this country had created. Not only are you doing this, you're increasing people with compromised immune systems' chance of death. I feel terrible that my child has to go through this because of others lack of understanding.

I know this thread has gone off the boil but there is an interesting article on the FDA website discussing the findings on a study which sets out to better understand the increase in whooping cough cases despite high rates of vaccination. It states that though the vaccine is effective in preventing the disease in those vaccinated it suggests that it may not prevent infection from the bacteria that causes whooping cough or it's spread to other people. www.fda.gov/newsevents/newsroom/pressannouncements/ucm376937.http

It is obviously a huge leap to say something similar happens with the measles vaccine but it could be that a vaccinated person passed this on.

Got to page 6 of this thread and feel I just have to make a few points, so sorry if I am repeating something that has already been addressed.

1. The underreporting of vaccine complications. It seems like it is very hard to get a doctor or a medical institution to accept that any illness that happens after could be related to the administration of the vaccine.

2. The huge financial interests of the pharmaceutical companies who pay the researchers, the medical journals and train the doctors.

3. The number of occasions when something we were assured by the experts was perfectly safe has turned out years later to be have been extremely harmful, eg. Thalidomide, margarine, feeding cows on sheep offal, overuse of antibiotics, etc. etc. etc.

4. To my mind the OP contradicts herself when she states the fact that her son has been vaccinated against measles and then got measles, then proceeds to draw some, to my mind, bizarre conclusions, namely that he was only half-vaccinated ???? and that he got it from an unvaccinated child. Whereas the most logical question I would be asking is why did the vaccination not work? How come so many vaccinated children are still getting sick?

It is all very well to say listen to the experts, we do, but we have to look for more than one opinion when it concerns the health of our children.

Just reading further, gosh you are rude, OP. Does being rude get you more brownie points and mean that you have won the argument?

No Mexican, it doesn't! :)

MistyB,
I tried to read your link, but it's not working for me. Do you have another link? Or could I ask, was it the baboon study it was discussing?
Cheers,
Rosewind

I'm sure there would be a greater uptake of the measles vaccine if it was offered separately.

We were lucky in that our boys needed the vaccine at a time when they were offered singly. As boys they don't need the rubella vaccine and both had had mumps in infancy.

One got whooping cough at 14 despite being vaccinated.

Côte - I'm surprised by you. I've been around here for donkey's years too. The vaguely threatening 'pray certain mnetters don't read this' type comment at the beginning and then your 'I'd change your name if I were you if you want to stay' - very school bully. As one of the old and current mnetters I'd rather you didn't represent all of mnet as bullies who won't welcome you if they don't agree with one thing you've said. I can't remember anything you've ever posted tbh - although I've seen your name round for years. I would suggest most people use this forum for fun, for advice, for support, not to target individuals with whom they have disagreed.

OP - arguments about vaccines aside, it is clear what you meant by half vaccinated and the sort of pedantics you have had to enjoy on here about it are classic mnet. Watch your spelling and grammar now you've admitted you're a teacher and please don't be discouraged if this is your first post. You have posted on a topic which always turns into a bun fight on MN.

YouDoVooDoo, pedantry is when one pulls someone up on a minor grammatical or spelling mistake that does not interfere with meaning but frankly using the term "half vaccinated" implies that the OP has misunderstood the whole vaccinations process

Although I fear correcting you may make me one... from the Oxford English Dictionary:

pedant
Line breaks: ped¦ant
Pronunciation: /?p?d(?)nt /
NOUN

A person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning:

The sort of deliberate misinterpretation of the OP's words to make a point and discredit her with their superior understanding would seem to fit some of the posters on this thread.

Actually, I'm with Mexican on this. I don't think addressing the 'half vaccinated' thing is being pedantic. Quite a few people misunderstand how vaccines and boosters work and are under the impression that they are partially protected from the disease when they have had one dose of the vaccine. I think it's important to correct people on that.

YouDoVooDoo. You may think people are deliberately misinterpreting the OP's words, but frankly I assume that if someone says something that is what they believe, on top of the fact that the OP asserts that her (half) vaccinated child has measles because some other people have not vaccinated their children.

It's not that, it's the focusing on the, admittedly poorly chosen, words 'half vaccinated' when it is perfectly obvious that the focus of OPs post is complaining about parents who chose not to vaccinate and her distress that her child has contracted an unpleasant disease, which, had herd immunity still existed, he most likely would not have contracted.

Anyway, I've made my point to the OP and that is all I wanted to do so I shall leave you to carry on demonstrating why mnet gets such a bad reputation.

YouDo, I think the point people were making is that her son was clearly also capable of spreading the disease so it's not just idiots who don't vaccinate that are spreading it. That was the main focus of their posts.

Re. not trusting pharmaceutical companies, a quote from Dr. Margia Angell ...Similar conflicts of interest and biases exist in virtually every field of medicine, particularly those that rely heavily on drugs or devices. It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine .

Dr. Margia Angell ...Similar conflicts of interest and biases exist in virtually every field of medicine, particularly those that rely heavily on drugs or devices. It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine .

Would this be the same Dr Margia Angell who said:
"It is time for the scientific community to stop giving alternative medicine a free ride... There cannot be two kinds of medicine conventional and alternative. There is only medicine that has been adequately tested and medicine that has not, medicine that works and medicine that may or may not work. Once a treatment has been tested rigorously, it no longer matters whether it was considered alternative at the outset. If it is found to be reasonably safe and effective, it will be accepted."

The same Dr. Margia Angell whose views may be somewhat out of step with the rest of the Harvard Medial School, let alone the rest of the medical establishment:
www.forbes.com/sites/johnlamattina/2012/12/14/marcia-angells-attacks-on-pharma-have-lost-all-credibility/
"Several years ago, two Harvard physicians coined the label pharmascold to describe, among others, self-righteous medical journal editors who they say compulsively criticize the industry and physicians who work with it, creating needless hubbub and erecting barriers that slow medical breakthroughs."

But anyway. Nice quote, though it is based on her experience as editor over fourteen years ago. And based on experience of a healthcare system which is somewhat unlike the one we are lucky enough to have here in the UK. I mean, I don't know much about Dr Angell. She sounds like a decent sort, and would probably applaud the NHS from what she says here:
"Our health care system is based on the premise that health care is a commodity like VCRs or computers and that it should be distributed according to the ability to pay in the same way that consumer goods are. That's not what health care should be. Health care is a need; it's not a commodity, and it should be distributed according to need. If you're very sick, you should have a lot of it. If you're not sick, you shouldn't have a lot of it. But this should be seen as a personal, individual need, not as a commodity to be distributed like other marketplace commodities. That is a fundamental mistake in the way this country, and only this country, looks at health care. And that market ideology is what has made the health care system so dreadful, so bad at what it does."
And I expect she would be absolutely behind the AllTrials campaign, as I am:
www.alltrials.net/
Because I am very confident that the science behind the scientific consensus on vaccination is sound, and that our healthcare system here in the UK (whilst by no means perfect, but then what is?) is excellent, and strives to be better.
Cheers,
Rosewind

I don't really see the relevance, Rosewind, of your quoting the other comments that Dr. Angells has made.

I gave this quote because Medical Journals are where the results of research is published and supposedly peer-reviewed. The one-time editor of a prestigious Medical Journal is saying that it is "no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines".

Which to my mind is very relevant to a discussion about vaccines that we are being asked to trust the experts on. And in a discussion where the OP, counterintuitively, blames people who are not vaccinated for her vaccinated son getting sick.

I don't think she likes being outquoted Mexican :)

@ bumbleymummy
"YouDo, I think the point people were making is that her son was clearly also capable of spreading the disease so it's not just idiots who don't vaccinate that are spreading it. That was the main focus of their posts."

Yes, partially vaccinated children are capable of contracting measles and infecting others - the figure is around 5 in 100. Fully vaccinated children are also capable of catching measles and passing it on - the figure is around 1 in 100. On the other hand, unvaccinated children are the most capable of catching and spreading measles - the figure is 100 in 100.

At least those parents who have been able to and have chosen to vaccinate have greatly reduced the odds of their child catching measles and passing it on. As the unvaccinated are most likely to catch measles and pass it on, I don't think it's unreasonable for a parent of a partially-vaccinated child to be unimpressed by those who choose to avoid the MMR vaccine.

YouDo - "Bully"? Ffs

RTFT properly before you throw accusations around.

I recommended a namechange because, and I quote myself here, "Nobody deserves to be remembered for their first thread". Nothing to do with 'bullying' - I was showing her the way out, referring to the fact that these mistakes are quite common in 1st posts. Most people then namechange and move on.

"The vaguely threatening 'pray certain mnetters don't read this' type comment at the beginning"

OP called people who don't vaccinate their DC for measles misinformed, ill-advised idiots who lack understanding. And I said "There are some very informed, highly educated, and intelligent parents on MN who have reasons not to vaccinate their children with MMR. I can only imagine that you have never been on a vaccination thread on MN, if you can call everyone who have not vaccinated their children misinformed idiots. Pray that this thread does not attract them."

That was obviously not schoolyard bullying or whatever. It was telling the OP in plain English that she is wrong, and intelligent, well-educated, well-informed parents were likely going to come over and show her as much.

And if you don't like it, put it in your pipe and smoke it If one day I feel like having a complete stranger tell me what to say and how to say it, I'll let you know. Until then...