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Original poster

Unsure about vaccinations? Try reading "Deadly Choices"

449 replies

arkestra · 31/08/2013 12:41

I got Whooping Cough recently at age 43, what fun. Apparently vaccine immunity for WC wears off after a few decades. It was as ill as I have ever been and I was pretty much out of action for 3 months. There has been an increase of WC cases recently in the SW of England, where I live. I could rant at anti -vaccine campaigners, but what would be the point? I am more concerned that the people who are unsure have access to a clear statement of the pro-vaccine position.

So can I suggest that anyone who is unsure about vaccination reads "Deadly Choices" on the pro-vaccine front even if they read nothing else?

I just had my early summer ruined. But babies get killed by this kind of thing. I totally get why people find vaccines icky and unsettling, there are hard wired ways we intuitively think about our bodies that foster that kind of reaction. So just read this book if you're on the fence OK? It would be nice if lots of other 40-somethings don't irritate everyone else with their wheezing and self-pity Grin

(Gets back off soapbox)

OP posts:
LaVolcan · 31/08/2013 13:47

How does 'anti-vaccine' relate to immunity wearing off? Isn't that more of an argument for offering a booster dose of the vaccine to adults?

TwasBrillig · 31/08/2013 13:52

Not read it but very anti anti vax. My baby had whooping cough at 2 moths and it was terrifying. I had it too. It was three months of hell after moving house with no support and low income. At that moment I'd have struggled to be the same room as an anti vaxer.

Original poster
arkestra · 31/08/2013 14:17

LaVolcan: is an argument both for boosters for adults and people getting their kids vaccinated so there is less WC floating about in general (the latter being where anti-vax makes a difference)

OP posts:
Crumbledwalnuts · 31/08/2013 14:21

Why don't you read some reports of vaccine damage? They do tend to involve more than a ruined summer.

Crumbledwalnuts · 31/08/2013 14:25

Oh I beg your pardon. A ruined early summer. Still, no matter if people are damaged for your tremendously important few weeks.

JakeBullet · 31/08/2013 14:28

My brother nearly does from whooping cough in the 1970s. my poor Mum had been scared out of having him immunised by all the negative press at the time. She forever blames herself for this as my brother has some health issues as a result of the whooping cough. I will never forget how I'll he was.

That said I can understand why parents are scared. The newspapers can be very frightening sometimes and I am still convinced by parents who say their child was normal until a vaccine of some kind was given. It could be coincidence yes but statistically a small number of children WILL suffer as a result of immunisation....nothing is without risk.

JakeBullet · 31/08/2013 14:29

Nearly "died" not "does"

Crumbledwalnuts · 31/08/2013 14:35

People rely on more than "newspapers" when they make their decisions. Nor do they rely on a belief that vaccines are "icky and upsetting".

Original poster
arkestra · 31/08/2013 14:35

Crumbledwalnuts: thanks for providing such a great example of a lost cause, as mentioned in my original post.

OP posts:
Crumbledwalnuts · 31/08/2013 14:36

Yes - it's a lost cause alright. People just deny, deny, deny. Those poor children. They make this great sacrifice and are thrown away.

Crumbledwalnuts · 31/08/2013 14:37

"icky and upsetting" I've read some patronising rubbish but really this takes the biscuit

Original poster
arkestra · 31/08/2013 14:46

Anyway, as I was saying, it's a good book for the ones trying to make their minds up one way or the other. They're the ones worth talking to. No point in engaging with zealots, life's too short. Doughnut, anyone?

OP posts:
nickelbabe · 31/08/2013 14:51

Crumbledwalnuts - you've had your say, and you have yet to convince me that being nasty to other posters who don't agree with you is better behavious than warning people about the dangers of having unvaccinated children.

therre are plenty of people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons and anti-vax is putting their lives in danger.

Crumbledwalnuts · 31/08/2013 14:52

I would also urge you to read some accounts of vaccine damage; those parents are worth listening to. No point engaging with zealots so close-minded they can't even acknowledge a real, living, breathing "problem".

No doughnut for me thanks. There are some kinds of people one doesn't break bread with.

Crumbledwalnuts · 31/08/2013 14:53

I think arkestra was nasty, don't you? If she doesn't like it, she shouldn't really go there.

Nickelbabe do you have a flu vaccine every year? Do you have your immunity checked regularly? Because if not you are putting people's lives in danger.

nickelbabe · 31/08/2013 15:04

no, i don't think she was.
I think she rightly pointed out the dangers of not vaccinating your children.

I am VERY pro-vaccination for the good of the greater population.

Let's put it this way, would yo ube able to live with yourself if a child with epilepsy, who couldn't be vaccinated without risk, was killed by a disease that your healthy child hadn't been vaccinated against, caught and passed on?

Crumbledwalnuts · 31/08/2013 15:07

She called me a zealot and damaged children a lost cause. Can you answer my question first - for the good of the greater population, do you do those things?

nickelbabe · 31/08/2013 15:07

and the whole point of everyone being vaccinated is that you are less likely to be at risk from those whose vaccines have worn off.

It's a herd thing - if people are vaccinated, then there just isn't the prevalence of the disease in question, therefore, it's less likely to "do the rounds"

Crumbledwalnuts · 31/08/2013 15:08

Can you answer my question? thanks

nickelbabe · 31/08/2013 15:08

I'm pretty sure that she called you a lost cause, not "damaged" children.

nickelbabe · 31/08/2013 15:09

ODFOD

No, i don't get the flu vaccine every year because I am not required to, because I am not in an at risk group.
that's on the advice of the NHS.

I don't get my immunity checked regularly.

LaVolcan · 31/08/2013 15:09

If arkestra had come on telling us that she had had a nasty bout of whooping cough, and did you know your immunity could wane, and how about more information/booster vaccine to deal with this, then fine.

But as it was it was written with a subtext: if those nasty anti-vaccers hadn't been around then the disease would have been eliminated and then it wouldn't have mattered that my immunity had waned because I wouldn't need it.

Maybe, except I have read that the bacterium involved is thought to have mutated thus making the vaccine less effective. In which case, she could still have had the nasty bout of whooping cough, and raging against the anti-vaccers would be a waste of time and energy because it would be nothing to do with them.

nickelbabe · 31/08/2013 15:11

but I was also one of those who had measles when I was 2.
It was fucking horrible, according to my mum, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

and for the want of a small needle prick, a healthy child should have it.

But I am also a believer of freedom of choice, so although I can tell you to the cows come home that you're a selfish so-and-so if you have no medical ground not to vaccinate, I will defend you to the death for your right to refuse.

nickelbabe · 31/08/2013 15:12

LaVolcan - but then the latest vaccines would be against the latest strain, wouldn't they?

Crumbledwalnuts · 31/08/2013 15:16

Why would she call me a lost cause? And how is it not nasty if she did?

I'm afraid that by your own reckoning you are a risk to the general population. It's not just a small needle prick for some: it's a lifetime of damage. More than "fucking horrible".

LaVolcan: parapertussis. The vaccine doesn't work and in fact in mice experiments it makes the mouse more vulnerable to pertussis. No nickelbabe there is no vaccine against parapertussis.