********The 37th Tamoxifen Thread, Fun and Tears in "Cancerland" *****

[Copthallresident]

Trolley Rolled over and "Its a small small world" playing on the ipod on repeat.

Earth is there anyone else you could take with you and dh, someone slightly less emotionally involved who can keep a clear head and ask questions
Thinking of you x

I would think that if there was spread to lungs then you'd def. be given chemo earth
Whatever thing brings comfort and reassurance is good betsy - I was brought up as a catholic but haven't practised for a very long but pick bits of it out and mix with some Buddhism for good measure.

Thanks everyone. DD1 and DD2 are busy typing out some questions that even if I don't have time to ask, I can leave them and ask if I could ring them or they ring me so I at least have some thing to go over later.

Actually, thinking about it, there must be lots of people go into a consultation like this and come out having heard very little and its gone over their heads. There should be a back up sheet, makes sense to me.

Warning I'll be back tomorrow saying, whats this, what does that mean. Please be here

Bless you we will all be here, I can't offer much knowledge but will offer what support I can
Giving a summary sheet would be a very good idea as it is too much to take in

you can take in a recording device you know- mobile or dictaphone to record the appointment- I read that somewhere..it's recommended so that you can play it back to make sure you've heard everything.

Earth - good luck for tomorrow, I'll be thinking of you :)

Malt - I will wish you good luck for Tuesday now, just in case I don't get on here until late tomorrow and I miss you. Mondays are a bit mad here, full day at work, swimming after school & then choir rehearsal in the evening... (so hopefully I'll sleep like a log after all that!)

Earth my consultant used to write things down for me and give it to me at the end, - there is no reason why they can't do that for you if it would help, and yes as MAS says a dicta phone or something perfectly acceptable. Remember its your appointment and you want to come out feeling you have understood everything and asked everything you want to.
Take in a sheet of questions, and don't allow them to hurry you, just go through your list until you are done.
Will be thinking of you tomorrow, and of course we will be here and do our best to help

Betsy I am not religious, but am very much of the 'whatever helps and works for you is good' school of thought. For me its things like yoga relaxation, breathing techniques etc. for you it is your faith - and I know many people who have gained great comfort and strength from their faiths in times of trouble. - and your priest sounds like a good chap to have batting for you, anyone you can talk to when you need a shoulder is a great help

Waving to everyone - I am catching up with posts again! -spent most of the day gardening, and am now feeling the aches and pains!
Trying to sort out and plant up stuff for my sister, and stuff for DS and DDIL for their gardens - as I always grow far to much for just our garden.

Thanks Betsy absolutely dreading it just got my case out :(
You're doing the right thing in keeping busy I find that helps

I'm religious. Helps me loads. Provided I stay away from church buildings, which are a sensory nightmare. Er, and any church people who think people like me belong in hell. Those don't help much either. But that sounded like a Godincidence to me, yup.

Earth, good luck for tomorrow. Will keep everything crossed for you.

I don't understand though if there is a God why does he want us and all of our family and friends to suffer like this? Why doesn't he give cancer to the awful people in the world ? I don't mean any offence I don't go to church but would consider myself a believer before this.
Feel free not to answer I know faith is a very personal thing and if it helps that's brilliant I'm not knocking anyone's views but I have been thinking about this

amber - I'd never heard of the term "Godincidence" before, but yep that's exactly what it was, and I definitely had "Godbumps" !

"any church people who think people like me belong in hell" - yes I can probably guess who they are already - I've always had an "ignore people who give me negative vibes" policy, so that will continue and some for the next few months!

Malt, I'll have a punt at answering that. 'Cos it's a real planet. I am of Christian faith (though have friends of all faiths and none and we all get on great). We know Jesus had a completely naff time; bullying, torture, killed horribly etc. So we know for sure that our faith is nothing to do with Christians having a fab time. But...for me I get a sense of strength to get through stuff. And I know Jesus went through hell with stuff too, so he knows what it was like. Plus, in the next realm the whole lot gets sorted out and any pain and tears are washed away (or so our own faith believes). Do I feel like kicking God's ankles sometimes? Yes. Lost loved ones, had terrible pain most of my life, etc. But the faith, and love, is what sees me through. I've no idea why there's this much suffering going on, but there's also a ton of good stuff, and looking for that becomes so important. Plus sometimes genuine miracles happen. Had a couple happen in our family. Just really random as to whether they do.

Malt - It's hard to explain, but I'll give it a go :) (and this is just how I see things, I'm pretty sure others with faith will have different views)

I don't see getting cancer as God somehow punishing me any more than someone badly injured in a car accident is being punished by him, it's just one of those things that happens to some people.

I guess I don't see it as God "giving" me cancer, it just happened, and it's just another sign of the many things that are broken in the once beautiful world he made.

I know he will support me and help me and my family carry this burden, I trust him to do that. My Godincidences this week are just a reminder!

Will I be healed? I don't know, but I do know God doesn't like illness, demonstrated by how Jesus healed the sick people he met. Our time on Earth is only temporary, so any healing is a temporary state anyway, as we wait to reach the next life.

That doesn't mean I won't get angry sometimes about what has happened and say "why me", "what about my kids" and shout at God and demand he fixes me, but he understands these human feelings and will probably send a few more Godbumps in my direction .

I have always found my faith especially comforting during particularly difficult times in my life. The most amazing Godincidence (see how I love my new word ) was when I was told I was probably going to miscarry DD (now 7), I was scared and in pain, I reached out to him and asked for his support and he showed me he was there with me. It was quite surreal actually (still get goosebumps thinking about it)

Anyway that's too much waffle, but you did ask

x-post with amber whilst I was writing war and peace...

As I said people have differing views, but I can see the same "core" in amber's response and mine. :)

Amber and Betsy thank you I do understand what you are both saying and youve both explained it well lots to think about
My head will explode with all of this thinking soon
I am still selfishly struggling with the why me. But then really why not me. My family and I have been really lucky health wise up to now so I guess it was bound to happen to one of us

Can I give my non believer perspective (with respect to those with Faith - I am all about live and let live and respecting the things that are important to others)

From my point of view there is no rhyme or reason behind why anyone gets cancer (unless of course it is an obvious medical cause and effect).
It is a random thing, there is no why me or why anybody else, unless there is equal why not me or anybody else.
It's a mutation of cells - a physical process, a bit of our bodies going wrong. And hundreds upon hundreds of things go wrong with our bodies during our lives, from colds to cancer.
No one questions why they get a cold, or a broken leg, or even why people get other life limiting diseases like Alzheimer's.

But for some reason we question cancer because it is thought of as being so bad, that there must be a reason behind it. Part of the fear comes from the massive cultural connotations that have built up round cancer. But other diseases can be just as, or even more deadly.

No one gets cancer because they are bad or have done something wrong, it just happens, no deserves it. But sometimes bad things happen to good people. And one in three people will get it at some point in their lives, it is unfortunately very, very common.

For my comfort I look to the ingenuity of human beings, the researchers and Doctors who are working to overcome this particular illness that affects so many people. And I trust in them to do their very best for me, and for all of you lovely, good women too.

xx

Everyone has things that work for them. For some it's faith. For others it's something else. If it works for that person, great. That's my view.

Absolutely, hang on to whatever works for you, especially at times like this. Each to their own and all that.

I agree with whatever you believe in and gives you comfort especially in bad times has to be a good thing. It's good that we can all talk about it, I was worried that I'd offend someone, sometimes things can seem different when you write them down to what you intend
Kurri you are right about there being so many other awful diseases

Night all hope everyone sleeps well x

Definitely not offended malt - I find it really interesting discussing different views so long as everyone is like we have been here - being a grown up and not dissing views that differ from their own.

I certainly don't think that cancer is God's vengence on someone for being bad or that disabled people are so cursed because they have sinned etc - I think it's just the way life is - bad things happen but it's pretty much a lottery really and there's absolutely no point in thinking why me because why should it be anyone else either ? Some people seem charmed and are untouched by disaster or ill fortune and often they are people we perceive to not deserve it. I take a Buddhist view - that life is something we have to try to live in the best way we can,harming no one else. I think if you do your best and live with loving kindness then karma will ensure you reach a state of peace. I don't fear death because I feel there is something beyond and can't really articulate what it is but I just have a feeling...so that is quite a comforting feeling.
Lots of loving kindness (another Buddhist thing) and golden light for tomorrow Earth and to you malt for Tuesday - be calm and remember to stay in the present moment.

Earth one question that I found really helpful was to ask my Onc, similar age, what she would do. You were clearly not a wimp as Onc presented it to me as a choice, together with all Science has in way of evidence, which frankly wasn't good enough but I did trust her instincts. Same with friend, when she was up against it, I was there with her when she asked onc if she would do it, and she said yes definitely, and moreover wouldn't be doing it if not worthwhile. Not very rational I know but these oncs and surgeons have relatively little knowledge and science to go on but a lot of experience driving their intuition, someone else say if I am going all wooey Depends on Onc though, might feel less faith in Wonky Oncy at our hospital, or rubys wanky Oncy

Betsy and Amber I envy you your faith, and the comfort. It was actually my friend's illness that made me sure like KK that this bugger is a bunch of mutant cells and science had more answers than God, Friend and I had long debated our spirituality but when we had the eventual joy and gift of conception and birth it seemed right to celebrate it in church but equally when she died, though we talked about it before in terms , I just felt that Science rather than religion felt emotionally as well as rationally right. Her vicar was a star, a huge source of support and as as us about the afterlife, he even put her scepticism at heart of his eulogy, and how it had made him think, a tribute to his respect for her. However I do believe in the power of the human spirit and that in the still quiet moments you can get closer to that power, whether those moments are brought about by mindfulness, yoga, Buddhism, Christianity , Islam, Taoism etc. . By the same token i have no time for intolerance, Amber,I have absolute sympathy for your experiences . On much lesser scale was disgusted by all old lady tutting at toddlers in church, surely by definition a Christian community is inclusive regardless of age, or difference

Coolong yes heartened by Observer article. Coppettes previously about feminism but spent lunchtime discussing issues and even listening with interest and incredulity to friend and I describing the sexism and racism we both went through in our early careers. Had forgotten customer (we were in marketing) who remarked after he had heard friend had got divorced "I didn't know you people got married". Friend went from saying "Why can't girls these days develop a thick skin" to realising it really wasn't Ok

I.ve been following this tread for months I havent posted but wow Ive taken the advice these wonderful ladies have given to each other . I was diagnosised in October with a 2.5mm tumour her2 in my right breast I had 3FEC chemo then dosetaxole but on my 2ndTax I had a massive allergic reation that meant I had to abandon Chemo and go straight to Surgery where I had to have an mx becauce the tumour had grown to 4.5mm. Last Thursday I finally finished Radiotherapy after 5 weeks I,m burnt beyond belief But I,m F inally DONE.OK I,ve still got a Years worth of extreamely expencive Herceptin to do But the IMPORTANT THING HERE IS THESE FANTASTIC PEOPLE HERE GOT ME THROUGH THIS !!!!! NOT GOD OR BELIEF PLEASE lets keep this so everyone can help each other and bring cakes to the tea trolley and give helpful advice and find solice in a church if we need to LETS NOT JUDGE OURSELFS OR EACH OTHER

Been to bed, got up again. Going to have a hot chocolate when kettle boils Please let me sleep a little tonight so I'm not a wreck tomorrow.

I have a friend, also a former foster mum who is undergoing treatment for skin cancer, I confess to getting a little irritated when she says stuff like, "this isn't fair, all the children we helped," I don't just see cancer as a reward or indeed a punishment. It is what it is, a bloody disease. Ok it's something that frightens the bejabours out of me but its not as bad
as it can get, yet!

Night all, sweet dreams xxx

Hi all

I just want to say I am always impressed by the compassion, honest, and depth of thought I'm reading in this tread. Thank you Plus the humour and silliness helps too.

I'm closest to Buddhist here too (don't feel committed enough to claim it fully yet but something I've been exploring for years now). I don't really care why unless knowing is going to change something. I'm here now. I need to feel it, experience it and get myself through it as best I can.

I'm glad the passage popped out at you b and happy that faith in answers (wherever they come from) has helped so many.