vaccine yes or no??????

[123mon]

Hi, i would like to know your opinions about vaccine please. I decide to dont let my 3 years old daughter have the vaccine and i was wondering if there are other mums that think the same as me

i only asked your opinions, right or wrong, doesn make any differents. its good to have an opinion...

Right or wrong, it does make a difference, and not just to your children. It isn't always good to have a opinion, it can be ill-informed and dangerous to have some opinions.

so we just follow everybody else like sheeps and not have opinions?

Again as others have said depends what that opinion is based on.
The antivax crowd are usually more sheep like as they just repeat what they have read on some antivax website and don't look at the research behind.

I'm sorry I don't normally give opinions on the vaccine debate but after last month I feel I have to. My neighbour was doing homeopathic parenting and decided no vaccines. Her dd was 4 she contracted measles, my neighbour also hadn't been vaccinated she was 5 months pregnant. She miscarried and her dd developed a rare but fatal condition encephalitis. She lost both children due to not vaccinating. I know there are risks with vaccinations but the vaccines are ultimately worth it even with the minuet risk, as the illnesses they protect us from and there complications are far worse.

My neighbour is with her sister, I have no idea how to offer my sympathies as the pain she is in must be unbearable.

How dreadful OhMy

"so we just follow everybody else like sheeps and not have opinions"

No, most of us worry and then consult a medical professional and ask their advice, which is what I did. I then followed the advice and haven't lived to regret my decision, unlike OhMy's neighbour.

OhMy - That is a really awful story, I'm so sorry.
In answer to your question OP - Yes, yes, yes.

ohmy that's awful, I'm so sorry.

Ohmy- thats so sad & preventable. That initself is a very good reason why everyone should immunise!
Yes, yes and yes, always immunise!

How terribly sad Ohmy

I read an article she had given me from The Green Parent. I didn't agree with a single word, it was on the reasons NOT to vaccinate. I just thanked her for the article and shook my head at the thought of quite a big mainstream magazine printing such harmful advice.
I will always regret not challenging her over her opinions. I wish I had said something. This is why I'm giving my opinion now. I'm hoping it will help change someone's mind on vaccinations.

This thread makes me tired and angry in pretty much equal measure. 123 you are objectively wrong in your assessment that the risks of vaccinating are greater than the risks of the diseases these vaccinations protect against. Believing in the evils of vaccination is a 'first world' modern luxury. The only way you can have any chance of getting away with non-vaccination is by relying on the rest of us to vaccinate. Isn't rather hypocritical of you? To expect others to take the perceived risks that you will not countenance yourself? Were you to universalise your position, we would be in the midst of a public health disaster. You are also wrong in your assertion that somehow it is simply good to have an opinion. Not all opinions have equal moral/ethical/whatever worth. And choices should not be respected simply by virtue of being choices.

Obviously, I'm not talking about parents of those children who, for sound medical reasons, are unable to receive vaccinations. I am delighted that by vaccinating my own child, I am helping to provide protection to such children.

Very understandable how you feel OhMy but may have been very difficult to get her to change her mind x

That is absolutely awful to hear ohmy. I am just a bit confused, forgive me, I am not trying to question your account, but there have been no recorded deaths from acute measles in 2012 or 2013 as this document states In fact as far as I can see there have been no recorded deaths from acute measles since 1992 in the UK except for 2 children, one in 2006 and one in 2008, both of whom had congenital immunodeficiency, as the HPA notifications show here

All other deaths from measles since 1992 until 2008 have been from late effects from measles, from adults who contracted it pre the 80's, also set out in that document.

I am certainly not trying to belittle this awful disease, and certainly the lack of deaths are due to a successful vaccination programme, but I am confused about a death from acute measles in a child not being recorded.

ohmy that's terrible. I don't think you can blame yourself though. If she was so determined, I doubt you would have been able to change her mind.

I guess that people continue to take these unnecessary risks because, apparently like the OP, they assume it won't happen to them.

(After all, everyone knows that you're more likely to catch a disease if you have ALREADY been vaccinated, eh, OP?)

I see the report and I know the child had measles and I know later she had contracted encephalitis. I assumed the two must be linked, if I'm wrong then I apologise. I have no idea how reporting works but if the two were linked I'm guessing it would be reported.

But the illness has still devastated the family.

I think that report only goes up to 2008 and if you have a quick look around the website there's more information about 2008-12.

I haven't vaccinated ds2 and ds3 because of the way ds1 regressed into severe autism.

I have a science PhD, have read original research, have researched in the autism field, and have spoken to many researchers working on autism over the years. I can't really say I recognise myself in bruffin's description of 'anti-vaxers' (which is always a stupid title anyway - the majority of people I know who haven't vaccinated DID vaccinate older children - they weren't that anti-vaccine).

I have also, over the years spoken to more than one doctor (consultants on the whole, but the occasional GP) who suspect they have very occasionlly seen MMR triggered autism. One conversation was very recent actually. These doctors seem otherwise sane (as do the researchers I have spoken to at conferences). They just have to be very careful what they say in public. Which is a shame - or at least is an example of politics getting somewhat in the way of clinical care & research.

HTH

The best way to get latest figures is check the JCVI minutes - published quarterly. Any measles deaths would be mentioned there. Last time I looked they just referred to HPA figures. AFAIK the last acute measles death was in a teen with an underlying lung disorder which was the first death in 16 years.

Other deaths are related to SSPE but it's not always clear there whether SSPE can occasionally be MMR triggered. It's generally assumed to be wild type triggered but I'm not completely convinced by the data I've seen. (Not unconvinced either - just reserving judgement)

no luanmahi, the first report I linked to states that:

''So far in 2013, only the UK has reported outbreaks. In 2012, considerably fewer measles cases were reported in the EU than in
2011, primarily due to the dramatic decrease in the number of cases reported from France. There was no increase in the number
of cases during the peak transmission season from February to June and there have been very few outbreaks detected by
epidemic intelligence methods in 2012. There have been no measles-related deaths during the last 12 months, but seven cases
were complicated by acute measles encephalitis. The reduction in notified cases in 2012 indicates that the incidence at EU/EEA
level is back at the level before the 2010?2011 outbreaks, but does not signify a long-term downward trend in measles notifications''

Oh sorry pofaced is right - the 2006 death is the one I refer to, then 1 more.

I did scour the JCVI minutes for more recent reports but couldn't find anything - they just refer to the HPA (you can check measles figures for each region) and no mention of any deaths is made since the 2006/2008 ones. Of course there may be a recording error. I last checked a few months ago so I might be out of date.,

Sorry I stand corrected. I think I clicked through onto another page once I'd followed the link (the information was on reported cases rather than deaths).

The uptake rate for MMR is about 80-90% depending on where you are in the UK and is currently rising (probably because a recent increase in measles) that means that roughly 10-20% of parents choose not to vaccinate their children. You could have worked that out without posing the question on MN OP. I would guess that MN parents are representative of the general population so lets assume that about 10% have not vaccinate. Given that 90% of MNers are likely to disagree with you, OP, I think it would have been naive of you to expect to be given a smooth ride in this debate.

I do know parents who have chosen not to vaccinate their kids and they are extremely well educated and intelligent people who certainly did do their research. I respect their choices and will happily debate my choices with them. I would dispute the assumption that parents who choose not to vaccinate are relying on herd immunity to protect their children. The ones I know actively try to contract measles, mumps and rhubella when their children are young as this is the "safest" time for them to have it. They are responsible about spreading the diseases outside of non-vax circles though and keep quaranteen for responsible times, warning other parents that they are contagious.

I and my sibs were not vaccinated as children and we all had all the childhood diseases. We are all very healthy adults now with very healthy children of our own.

saintly I have no problem with you not vaccinating your DCs. You have explained your reasons and they seem sensible to me.

You have good reason to believe that vaccinating your DCs will harm them or at the very least adversely affect them.

The OP however seems to just be saying vaccination is evil but I won't tell you why because its all a secret conspiracy. Which is entirely different.