Alcohol... long! But your thoughts please!

[Eruditio]

I know I drink far too much. I can, over the course of an evening, drink an entire bottle of pinot single handedly. And wake without a hangover. And feel guilty because I know I'm drinking too much!

After the 'usual' drinking of late teens, and through my 20s, unlike most of my friends who settled down to proper 'social' drinking, I didn't. I don't drink a bottle every night, I should add, but I do drink probably 3 bottles a week (21 units?) now, and I feel it's creeping up. I can go a night or 2 without a drink, or maybe just have a small tumbler of beer (with DH). I never drink before 6pm and usually start as I'm making dinner.

I don't actually think my drinking affects my family. I can't ever 'not do something' because I've had a couple (except drive, which of course I wouldn't!). I rarely get a 'swimmy' head (which implies I'm very used to alcohol!). I think I get 'chattier', though. DH, who is very sensible, has never suggested he thinks I'm drinking too much, either, though I can't see why not as he sees the recycling bin! TBH, I would be embarrassed 'admitting' it to him. Also, were I to bring my drinking back to within acceptable limits, I know he'd give me that look every single time I picked up a glass for the rest of my life. He would mean well but I would feel eternally patronised.

What I would like to do is go to the GP and get some liver function tests but as others have noted here, you really don't want 'alcoholic' on your medical record unless you have to as yes, it IS a label! A friend of mine recently was initially 'refused' cover by her husband's work private health scheme due to someone misreading a form about her drinking! I am very aware of the potential health risks- increased risk of cancer, of dementia, of being a gagga old lady instead of an involved grandmother (though my DSs are in their teens), and so forth but, here in my late 40's, I can't make that feel real. And the thing is, if LFTs came back as 'normal', I know I'd treat that as a green flag to keep on drinking as I can! (My mother is a life long very heavy smoker who is fighting fit at 80- she 'got away with it' though I know alcohol and nicotine are 2 very different drugs!)

I drink because I like the feeling that first glass and a half gives, I like the pointy edges of life slightly smoothed, but of course, once you've had that 1 1/2 glasses, your guard is down, so the 3rd glass 'won't hurt'... I am a bit anxious, but by no means 'clinically' so. I like to know that, as 5pm comes around and I only have 45 mins more of chaos at work, that nice cold glass of pinot is awaiting me at home as I sit in the garden with DH and debrief about our days (he'll have a bottle of real ale). I have a couple of friends who also drink to excess (ie the same as me). I don't see much of them socially, but when we do we we tend to have a bit of a bender (once every 2 months?).

I really want to drink less not abstain. I don't want AA- sorry, I know people who have tried it and they tell stories of 'submitting to higher powers' (??) and of being at meetings with quite scary people who are waaay out there, not 'nice, middle class professionals' (as they see themselves) who know they're overdoing it but find slowing down wasn't as easy as they thought it would be! People who worry about the effects of alcohol on them medically, not socially, iyswim. One did 2 meetings before realising she felt a bit of contempt for most of her fellow AA goers; one drank cans of lager in bed of a morning, one's DH had walked out taking the DC when she was in the midst of an out of control alcohol fuelled outburst. This is what they've said, not my experience as I haven't been and probably wouldn't.

I am thinking I am going to try choosing given days a week to be completely alcohol free, at least every other day. I am thinking I will buy miniatures (Asda or Tesco are doing 4 for £5 right now!) and only chill one (I wouldn't necessarily drink warm pinot!!).

What do you all think?

Are you thinking 'Delusional!' she's a raging lush and is 'no better' than the people her acquaintances have described at AA, just less far down the road. My 'defence' would be that I'm only repeating what was said, that what I've heard about AA requires the 'belief' in a higher power which just isn't 'me', and that I don't judge such folk, but I also know that if their experience was so very different from my own, I wouldn't be able to relate at all, that's all.

Are you thinking it's impossible to pull back from 'a (fair) bit to much' to 'less', are you thinking I need to undergo Cognitive therapy?

Helpful responses welcome, ta!

For most people I think it's entirely possible to scale back drinking. For most people it's like deciding to go on a diet - sure, you might want that extra slice of cake or whatever, but you have decided that you will not have it and that's that.

Once your drinking has reached a point where you have tipped over the edge into alcohol addiction then I don't think it's possible to scale back though. At that point, it's all or nothing. The only real way of knowing for sure, though, is to try cutting down (or stopping) and see how it goes. If you can stick to your plan then you're not addicted. If you find yourself making excuses why you don't need to stick to the plan, then that's a red flag as to how serious a problem it is.

From what you've written here I'd hazard a guess that you're not addicted, you've just got into a habit of drinking at certain times and (as you say) once you've had the first glass or two it's harder to say no to the next. I'd say your plan of sticking to only one half-sized bottle of wine, and only drinking on, say, three nights a week is a fine one to start with. Once you get into a different routine then you may find it surprisingly easy.

Finally, well done on deciding to tackle this before things have got completely out of control.

Your drinking sounds very similar to mine.
The problem I find is that it's very easy to stop drinking completely or do set alcohol free days but after a while it just goes back to normal.
Am finding it wearing having to constantly police the boundary and often think it would be easier to just stop drinking altogether.
Something that did have a dramatic effect was to only drink when out of the house or in social circs - if friends came round and alcohol was appropriate then fine to drink at home, otherwise only while out.
Not only cut my intake dramatically but stopped me getting that wine o'clock itch and gave me a much healthier attutude to booze.

Hmm. I don't think you sound like an alcoholic necessarily - but I think you drink too much. You don't sound deluded but are very self aware and that has to be a good thing!

I can really see how easy it would be to look forward to or crave that relaxing drink in the evening. That's why I actually barely drink at all. I got used to being without it due to pregnancy/BFing, and I don't like wine or beer anyway. I am only going to order myself one single serve drink a week, it's a real treat for me.

If you want to cut back then do, it's not going to do any harm!

'wine'o'clock itch' yes, indeed.

Yes, I'd really like to try 'cutting down' rather than stopping. I like wine (dry white), I like the taste and I like that first fuzzy feeling. I don't like the guilt of knowing, later that night if not the next day, that I managed to drink the whole bottle over 3 hours, though!

I am going to remind myself that, as I cut down, if I 'fail' at cutting down, the only option left is abstinence.

Anyone else with some thoughts, please?

And to report back that tonight, being Friday, I did have a drink or 2- in fact, half a bottle, to the drop! I have made a measure so I know what half looks like. Half is still a bit more than is 'recommended', I know, it's 3.5 units- but hell, better than 7!

Now I've finished dinner, I won't drink any more tonight (I just about never do, post dinner at home). I also don't- or very rarely- have my glass on the dining table as I don't think it's healthy for the DSs to see alcohol on the dining table more than occasionally.

Try the Brave Babes thread, you will defo find some like minded people there

What works for me is periodically having a week or two off completely, then I find it much less of a thing, and drink far less often. Might be worth trying, just to see if you can?

A bottle of wine is usually 9 units, not 7. Have you checked the label or were you assuming 7?

It doesn't sound to me like you have a problem with alcohol but you do need to avoid the triggers that are leading you to drink more than the recommended weekly amount. I've had to give up alcohol because I did (or rather do) have a problem with it; I've been sober now for nearly 15 months.

What I would do to get you going is to stop completely for at least one month, preferably two. This will give you enough time to savour the feeling of not drinking and to work out what your trigger points are. Mine have very much been around the 'get home from work/wine o'clock' variety, I haven't eaten out very much since I quit because a restaurant setting is another.

After that it should be relatively easy to come up with a maintenance plan to stop you from reverting. I don't think a liver function test is likely to help motivate you as it's common for there to be few markers until problems are pretty well advanced. If you can afford it, though, you could do one of those general MOTs that companies like Bupa offer and give yourself a proper once-over with the money saved from drinking :)

Hope that helps - I believe the newer guidelines also suggest no more than 3 units in an evening because 14 per week would still mean it was okay to knock back a bottle and a half in one night and not be 'officially' breaking any guidelines.

Thanks, Jareth, that's a very good idea. Do you pre-plan your non alcohol weeks, or are they spontaneous? How long prior do you decide, and are you absolutely alcohol free in that time? DO you have a 'celebratory drink' at the end?

I've read pages of Brave Babes (and they are, indeed!) I can see that there's a lot of support on there, but, and this is a small but, I do see that the abstainers outnumber the cutting-downers rather a lot. I am not suggesting that the '90 units a week' people (and there are/were some) aren't me a few months down the line if I don't watch it, but what they need to do is maybe a bit different to where I'm at right now. I will of course continue to read it, though I gather I am on 'the roof rack' as in on a hairy, white knuckle ride of just trying to keep my consumption under control ( ShesADreamer- I get where you're coming from re the hassle of staying just on the right side of the boundary!).

Sadly, I don't go out enough to be able to drink a 'social' amount. An average of once a month's chance to have a drink is maybe a bit too draconian for me, though I can so see it's merit!

Well, if you can cut down you'll know you don't really have a problem; and if you can't, then you probably do!

Since really you only want the first glass or so, could you try altering your routines a bit? Put the bottle back in the fridge between glasses, or drink a glass of water or nice juice/cordial between glasses of wine, and you may find that you never get further than glass 2. Or could you invent another 'end of the day' ritual (some fizzy juice/cordial with nice nibbles?) that did the same psychological job?

I had a drink problem when I was younger - I don't drink now. The difference between us is that you can have alcohol free days relatively easily but I couldn't. I agree you might be benefit from reducing your drinking but whether you want to give up completely is up to you. All I'd say is this - its quite possible to get that zen like calm in other less potentially harmful ways and you may find the alcohol is contributing to the stress /anxiety you are feeling so that you end up drinking more as you get more stressed but then the alcohol is stressing your body ...on and on ad infinitum. Why don't you try on Monday doing something different when you get in - maybe do some gentle gardening/ go for a swim / go to a classical concert / have sex or have enjoy an evening walk with your husband? You may be surprised at how relaxed you can feel without a glass in your hand

I listened to a Radio 4 program about alcohol by a liver specialist, he said the liver can alter the way it processes alcohol, if it does you dont get a hangover in the morning. The specialist said most people take this as a good sign as they think well I cant be drinking that much or I'd have a hangover.

He said it was a sign of alcohol dependancy and something to do with the reason why alcoholics cant go back to being social or just the one drinkers, they are told to abstain completely.

It's all a bit fuzzy now but let me know if I'm wrong.

There's definitely physiological changes that take place in a drinker's body- the fact they (I?) don't get hangovers that much.

It remains to be seen if I can keep up 'alcohol free days'. One needs to pre-decide when they'll be and stick to it to 'prove' one can do it.

Interestingly, tonight, maybe because I was focusing on what I was drinking, I found that that half bottle 'did it' for me- I really didn't need any more, certainly no need to reach for that next glass! I do put the wine away in the fridge between drinks- half a bottle takes me a couple of hours to drink.

I also should look at different routines in the evening, though the swim/walk/sex thing can't happen! Like many, my early to mid evening household is chaos! Neither of us could be as self-indulgent to pull out of it to diminish anxiety!

Spontaneous, at least 2 weeks in 6 are booze free. NEVER have a 'celebratory' drink for not drinking. It's counter-intuitive.

I dunno, ill be sensible for weeks these days but if I feel like its getting out of control or I've had a few heavy nights I abstain for a while so I don't get in that vicious cycle of drinking most nights. If I abstain I am booze free though.

TTC at the moment so really need to not drink much at all, and the last 2 weeks of the month are usually booze free these days. I do tend to over indulge after the BFN each month though, but hey.. hopefully that will be short lived.

Oh, and heavy drinkers have an extra hormone (?) In their livers that processes alcohol differently in people with a higher tolerance. Explains why you don't get such a bad hangover if you're a very regular drinker.

If you do have a week off watch yourself if you do then have a couple of glasses. Your tolerance drops off incredibly quickly.

Neither of us could be as self-indulgent to pull out of it to diminish anxiety!

No, but you do need to find alternatives. If that's five mins away with a relaxation CD or a brisk walk around the block, you should make the time instead of defaulting to the booze to wind down. I'm emphatically not criticising you, of course!

I notice you haven't responded to my suggestion to try giving up for a month. Does that sound too hard? I always thought so. You will genuinely feel a lot better, even without hangovers.

I'm sort of going to baby-step my way into this. I 'fear' that knowing my personality type, were I to say 'Right, no alcohol whatsoever, come what may for one month!'- were I to fall off the wagon, I might do it spectacularly! One might say that my apparent inability to go cold turkey for a month (which, after all, is akin to choosing abstinence) is total proof that I am hopelessly addicted, but I see it more as unrealistic. 'A few drinks' (as detailed in my OP) is a habit of 30 plus years now- and I worry that I may almost redefine alcohol's importance in my life, and not necessarily in a positive way, if I go into 'battle' with it rather than bring it back under control, i.e. to a level that is both safe(r) and under my control.

I really think I want to 're-educate' myself to stop at 'a couple' (of glasses) with alcohol days in between and see how that goes. I may then consider complete breaks, but one step at a time.

hiya, my brother died of alcoholism, you don't sound like you're anywhere near being an alky but maybe drinking out of habit. I don't buy booze from mon to thurs so it's not there to drink. hub and i easily polish off a couple of bottles but then i know i can have a few days off. Think you should try that, i find if you break the time when you usually have a drink with some exercise or another treat you will forget about the booze maybe and if you can't you know it's a prob. Would also take milk thistle for a while and things like artichoke and radishes are amazing for the liver. Don't worry, i'm sure you can do it, my brother used to wake up and want a stella before he got out if bed, he couldn't function without a drink and that's the difference.

I worry that I may almost redefine alcohol's importance in my life, and not necessarily in a positive way, if I go into 'battle' with it rather than bring it back under control, i.e. to a level that is both safe(r) and under my control.

Can I be brutally honest and say that sounds like an excuse? I'll drink more if I drink less so I must drink ... (I'm obviously grossly simplifying what you actually said for effect).

I wasn't at all suggesting you should give up permanently as I have done. In fact when I first went to my GP (when I was in a terrible way) his advice was to give up for a year, which at the time seemed like an impossible challenge. But had he said 'permanently', I would have 'known' it was impossible and have lost any incentive to try. A year was long enough in my case to come to my own realisation that I must give up permanently.

In your case, I think a break of sufficient time to put you out of your current comfort zone about alcohol will be beneficial - more so that trying to cut down to a safe level without a break. My feeling is it will be easier to stay at a lower level of consumption if you've had that break first. Frankly, if you do see your drinking escalating during a period of planned abstention then you will know you have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol.

No comment on what you should do, as this is something that you need to figure out... what is best for you. It sounds like you are worried, but are reluctant to give it up.

As far as your liver goes, would a regular physical with blood work show if there was a problem? Then you could have it checked without actually mentioning you have any concerns.
Here is some information about blood tests and liver function that you may find helpful.
medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/_/discussion.aspx?topic=alcoholic+liver+disease

Agree with everything tribpot said.

I do know what you mean about battling though, that makes sense to me.

I think what I will do is consciously make the changes right now -in reality, stopping at half a bottle last night instead of sort of unconsciously drinking it all is a start. By 'unconsciously', I mean to differentiate it from 'feeling that I absolutely have to finish a bottle once opened. I don't feel that, but I just wander into the kitchen and pour another (habit??!).

I will enforce my alcohol free days and consider a failure to do so as a red light. I will try and find some displacement activities (interestingly, if I get in from work late and DH is serving dinner, I don't tend to have a pre-dinner drink or one with dinner, either!- but getting in late would also mean no homework got done and the breakfast dishes still sitting there, etc etc so not a long term solution )

Whilst I understand what you mean, tribpot that my statement 'I worry that I may almost redefine alcohol's importance in my life, and not necessarily in a positive way, if I go into 'battle' with it rather than bring it back under control, i.e. to a level that is both safe(r) and under my control' (this was in reference to going cold turkey for a month)- sounds like an excuse, tbf, I am trying to see it in the same way a dieter is endlessly told to not think 'right, as of tomorrow, I'm going to cut down my food intake by half, I'm going to run 6 miles every day, I shall never touch fat or sugar again, and in 6 months I will have lost 3 stone'- as everyone knows that is doomed to failure- you only need to read the dieting forum to see how, when people fall off that wagon, they do it with a whole packet of Hobnobs and 2 litres of icecream, in one go! In the same way, my 'month without alcohol, end of,' would be better handled, with my personality type, as 'today is alcohol free', 'today I can, if I feel like it, drink 2 glasses of wine'. That's what I mean.

I won't pry as to what your 'terrible way' was, but I am thinking that you mean your alcohol intake was completely out of control, but I fully accept that may not be what you meant at all (sorry)- however, for me the issue is I cannot, in my mind, link the reality of increasing my cancer chances, or my dementia likelihood with my alcohol consumption- I go as far as to admit that it might be counter-productive to get LFTs done as if they're 'normal', something in my psyche just might may me be less concerned than it would be sensible to be, iyswim. Also, as also stated, I don't think it's a good idea to have the term 'alcohol' bandied around your medical notes unless you have to.

In in all, yes, it would be good to stop all together, permanently but a) I don't want to, particularly, b) I don't think my drinking has quite reached the level where I really have no choice, c) small amounts of alcohol are actually considered beneficial to one!

Yes, Erudito - I was abusing alcohol in a very serious way. I'm not at all suggesting our situations are alike - they aren't - although I was for many years an 'unconscious evening drinker', by which I don't mean I lost consciousness but rather drank, poured another out of habit and so on. Considerably more than you are doing but I think stemming from that same place of habit/not consciously deciding to drink more but not choosing to stop.

So I want to be very careful not to sound over-zealous or finger-point 'look at me the reformed drinker'. Nearly everyone I know has a healthy relationship with alcohol and that is absolutely fine. One of my brothers, btw, always stops for a month in January as a kick-start to the new year. I used to be amazed at how he could manage that, I literally couldn't comprehend it. He always enjoy it - but then goes back to drinking not always entirely sensibly for the rest of the year :)

I take your dieting analogy - too much rigour makes it impossible to maintain. In this case, however, I'm advocating something deliberately intended to be short term and not maintainable over the long term. The other subtle difference I would see is that a dieter still has to eat food, even sugar, whereas you don't have to drink alcohol at all. I don't think the long term health gains of drinking it will be lost if you stop for a month

The health records question is an interesting one. Have you been asked at all what your weekly consumption of alcohol is? You are above the recommended amount although not significantly. And your health record and your health are two different things; you can omit things from one but not the other, if you see what I mean. I denied my alcohol intake repeatedly and for years and years, including paying into an income protection policy that would have been completely negated by my medical records had I needed to claim for anything other than something like a badly broken leg that couldn't be related to alcohol abuse. I paid into it to avoid admitting I had a problem.

I said in my first post that I don't think you have a problem with alcohol, and I still don't. It sounds like from your previous post now you can see you have a 'danger period' in the early evening where you're more likely to have a drink, which leads to the next drink. Avoiding drinking just in the danger period could be very beneficial, i.e. no drink before dinner just one glass with.

I have to say that you, tribcot, that you've done really well to nail your alcohol problem. And I also take on board your warning how being a 'social' evening drinker can be a slippery slope!

I have been asked, by a new GP, what my intake was and I was honest, for that time. It was just under the 'recommended maximum' and resulted in an automated letter advising me as such. And no doubt £20 to the GP practice for it's 'initiative' in taking an 'active' role in alcohol intake monitoring....

Right now, and hopefully forever, I don't need my GP to know that my alcohol consumption has crept up because I plan on addressing it. I actually seriously doubt my GP would be of much use at all, actually, were I to go in and announce it! Maybe I'm being cynical but I suspect I'd be given a couple of leaflets warning me how 'excess' alcohol consumption is bad for you as it increases your risks of cancer, strokes and dementia, don'tcha know? I may get a couple of blood tests that I expect the results of wouldn't be very impressive. I would also have the label 'Drinker' attached to me, which, as you know, has 'associations'.

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me!