Alcohol... long! But your thoughts please!

[Eruditio]

I know I drink far too much. I can, over the course of an evening, drink an entire bottle of pinot single handedly. And wake without a hangover. And feel guilty because I know I'm drinking too much!

After the 'usual' drinking of late teens, and through my 20s, unlike most of my friends who settled down to proper 'social' drinking, I didn't. I don't drink a bottle every night, I should add, but I do drink probably 3 bottles a week (21 units?) now, and I feel it's creeping up. I can go a night or 2 without a drink, or maybe just have a small tumbler of beer (with DH). I never drink before 6pm and usually start as I'm making dinner.

I don't actually think my drinking affects my family. I can't ever 'not do something' because I've had a couple (except drive, which of course I wouldn't!). I rarely get a 'swimmy' head (which implies I'm very used to alcohol!). I think I get 'chattier', though. DH, who is very sensible, has never suggested he thinks I'm drinking too much, either, though I can't see why not as he sees the recycling bin! TBH, I would be embarrassed 'admitting' it to him. Also, were I to bring my drinking back to within acceptable limits, I know he'd give me that look every single time I picked up a glass for the rest of my life. He would mean well but I would feel eternally patronised.

What I would like to do is go to the GP and get some liver function tests but as others have noted here, you really don't want 'alcoholic' on your medical record unless you have to as yes, it IS a label! A friend of mine recently was initially 'refused' cover by her husband's work private health scheme due to someone misreading a form about her drinking! I am very aware of the potential health risks- increased risk of cancer, of dementia, of being a gagga old lady instead of an involved grandmother (though my DSs are in their teens), and so forth but, here in my late 40's, I can't make that feel real. And the thing is, if LFTs came back as 'normal', I know I'd treat that as a green flag to keep on drinking as I can! (My mother is a life long very heavy smoker who is fighting fit at 80- she 'got away with it' though I know alcohol and nicotine are 2 very different drugs!)

I drink because I like the feeling that first glass and a half gives, I like the pointy edges of life slightly smoothed, but of course, once you've had that 1 1/2 glasses, your guard is down, so the 3rd glass 'won't hurt'... I am a bit anxious, but by no means 'clinically' so. I like to know that, as 5pm comes around and I only have 45 mins more of chaos at work, that nice cold glass of pinot is awaiting me at home as I sit in the garden with DH and debrief about our days (he'll have a bottle of real ale). I have a couple of friends who also drink to excess (ie the same as me). I don't see much of them socially, but when we do we we tend to have a bit of a bender (once every 2 months?).

I really want to drink less not abstain. I don't want AA- sorry, I know people who have tried it and they tell stories of 'submitting to higher powers' (??) and of being at meetings with quite scary people who are waaay out there, not 'nice, middle class professionals' (as they see themselves) who know they're overdoing it but find slowing down wasn't as easy as they thought it would be! People who worry about the effects of alcohol on them medically, not socially, iyswim. One did 2 meetings before realising she felt a bit of contempt for most of her fellow AA goers; one drank cans of lager in bed of a morning, one's DH had walked out taking the DC when she was in the midst of an out of control alcohol fuelled outburst. This is what they've said, not my experience as I haven't been and probably wouldn't.

I am thinking I am going to try choosing given days a week to be completely alcohol free, at least every other day. I am thinking I will buy miniatures (Asda or Tesco are doing 4 for £5 right now!) and only chill one (I wouldn't necessarily drink warm pinot!!).

What do you all think?

Are you thinking 'Delusional!' she's a raging lush and is 'no better' than the people her acquaintances have described at AA, just less far down the road. My 'defence' would be that I'm only repeating what was said, that what I've heard about AA requires the 'belief' in a higher power which just isn't 'me', and that I don't judge such folk, but I also know that if their experience was so very different from my own, I wouldn't be able to relate at all, that's all.

Are you thinking it's impossible to pull back from 'a (fair) bit to much' to 'less', are you thinking I need to undergo Cognitive therapy?

Helpful responses welcome, ta!

I agree, Molly that was harsh. I don't think OP is an alcoholic, just one of a hidden (and huge) population of drinkers whose intake is somewhere above the recommended limit but fall short of dependent. OP it might be worth doing a google search for alcohol counselling services in your area - these tend to be voluntary/charitable services (i.e not NHS) set up to help anyone with concerns about their drinking explore these in a confidential way, and can accommodate people who are aiming for abstinence or controlled drinking. You also mentioned a mild anxiety issue, which could also be explored/addressed.

Yep Molly - harsh and judgemental.

Q: "You sound like an alcoholic and frankly you are no better than anyone else so please get off your high horse.

Mad idea: why not just give youe liver a break, and cut down to 1 bottle of wine a week. Have it any way you want but not go over 1 bottle a week.

Test yourself for a few months and see if you can manage and see what signals your body sends back."

Molly, erm- what 'high horse'? An acknowledgement that I'm not nor have ever been at the stage of needing a drink to get out of bed in the morning; having SS around to check on my DC because I'm too pssed to care for them; a drink driving conviction; having relationship problems because of my drinking; missing work due to a hangover or evident health issues due to alcohol hardly puts me on 'a high horse', it's just a recognition that the sort of help needed by people who do have any or all of those issues is not likely to help me. I* have not been judgemental of them (read my OP), though a friend has as she also recognised that the people at AA weren't in the same boat as her at all. Though, now you mention it, I would say I am better than someone who refuses to confront their alcohol dependency when their drinking is damaging and aversely affecting those unable to 'walk away', such as family or an innocent bystander when you crash your car into them. I make no apology fro that. Thus I am supportive of the Brave Babes becasue they're trying to deal with their problem.

TBH, I don't see myself as an alcoholic. I agree that 16 days alcohol free doesn't necesarily mean I'm not, but those who are dry for decades who have had an alcohol dependency in the past see themselves as 'recovering alcoholics'. So 16 days is not much but so far I'm passing 'the test' I've set myself.

Ultimately I would hope to be drinking maybe a bottle or so a week on a weekend evening, i.e genuinely 'socially', but not the lot in one go! ('any way you want'). Your idea isn't mad (though I do recognise your sarcasm!), just an alternative, really, to what I'm doing already.

Eruditio, why bother justifying yourself to Molly? I wouldn't.

An alcoholic probably wouldn't recognize that they drink too much.

I myself have dramatically cut down on my drinking in the last 10 years, now I rarely have any more than 1/2 small glasses of wine, sometimes (but rarely) 3 depending on the type of meal I'm having, but I never drink anymore than 1 small glass of wine during the week, if I drink at all.

I have learnt to drink much more slowly too, enjoy every sip and not gulp it down.

Like someone said earlier, the less you drink, the less you will be able to tolerate.

It might not be the best idea to stop altogether, even if it's just for a month, isn't that going to make you want to really indulge next time? Why not try and do it moderately like no more than one glass a night (and make it a small glass of 125 ml, measure it too, I am much more conscious of what I drink since I have been measuring the quantity).

And stick to one every other evening like you do now anyway I believe?

It takes time to break a long term habit, and everything associated with it.

For me it was a case of "yes, the kids are in bed, I've had a bad day, now I'm going to relax with a glass of wine in front of the soaps!".

Now I still do that, but without the wine. Maybe I should ditch the soaps too, I'm sure they are equally as harmful!!

This is an interesting thread. I don't think anyone has asked the OP how much money she's saved by not buying 3-4 bottles of wine a week. Can you put it aside with a special purpose in mind?

And if you say that your drinking is mostly pre-dinner/post-kids in bed (that's what I've inferred, anyway), then if you don't start drinking while you're cooking but change to having a glass of wine with dinner then no more, then that's probably a healthier approach. I'd also say that it was a better "example" to set your children, taking up the references you make to that. The kids will know you're drinking in the kitchen when you're coming in and out as they do homework and, depending how old they are, may even pick up on any hint that you're being slightly furtive about it. This wouldn't be that positive an example, if this were the case.

Best of luck.

That's right my parents always had red wine on the table at dinner time when I was little and even used to offer the odd flute of Champagne to us children at Christmas, Easter and other occasions (which I always refused as I hated it).
But at least it was open, and I never saw drunk people around me, just people who enjoyed a drink in moderation with their dinner (I am French though).

jkklpu (are you Finnish? ) I think that's a good point you make about the DCs and alcohol on the table. I think if I were just drinking a day or 2 per week, that would be a better idea than the apparently 'furtive' drink in the kitchen. I think I had been doing that (drinking whilst cooking) to a) not be drinking at the dinner table thus b) not be setting a 'bad' example. However, yes, they are of an age where I couldn't hide it if I wanted to!

coffee you raise some good points. I'd also agree that I would have been 'better off' sticking to Plan A which was to reduce my intake to the once or twice a week rather than going cold turkey. This is what I'd decided to do myself, alone; but then The Weekend Thing happened- see my post of Fri 21-Sep-12 19:30:49, where one of my friends who I tend to overindulge with once every 2 months or so had, on a w/e away, an alcohol fuelled outburst, so the three of us have decided to go cold turkey til one (B, in the post) has to go to a family do towards the end of October (17 days to go!). Ironically, she's the one who's failed! Only a bit, though- a half bottle cos her DH had bought one in for the night that she got back from the w/e away, one drink when her DC went off to uni, and a dinner party on Saturday- in fact, taken as a whole, those being the 3 occasions she's had a drink over the past 16 days, you'd call it normal drinking but in contravention of the Sisterhood Pact ...

I'm not too worried about going mad when we do 'break the drought'. My self-knowledge implies to me that I won't feel the need to (though I will be mindful that my tolerance is going to be lower!). If I 'break' a diet, it's with maybe 2 biscuits; I never think 'Sod it, I've had two, I may as well eat the whole packet', iyswim. I will report back after that evening, though, when it comes!!

PS I'd save £20 a week on alcohol....Mmm

Wow Molly - what helpful, intelligent comments.

Actually Eruditio, you might even find that when it's the end you might "forget" that you are allowed to drink, and carry on not drinking for a few more days! who knows

Hiya erudito, i think your thread (and the battlebus one) is v brave.

Have strong views on alcohol due to problems with family members' alcoholism/drinking too much (realise it's not black and white).

Am interested in why you haven't discussed this much with your DH. What does he think of your drinking d'you think, is he concerned about you (or/and himself)?

Are the DC old enough to be interested in drinking themselves? (at our school for example most people had been drunk occasionally from 13!) One of the worrying things about smoking/drinking a lot at home is the impact on the DC and their attitudes.

Your weekend sounds dramatic, it sounds like your friend has troubles in general . However things go for them, are there other friends you could do social things with without as much booze? Or meals out or whatever with your DH?

Dozer I guess we, in our immediate family, have been fortunate to have not had experience of the effects of really excessive alcohol consumption, but I know it's a hot potato in one of my mother's sibling's extended family as a cousin married an alcoholic, in an area where alcoholism is rife, north of the border, and that had very nasty repercussions, much of it tawdry and seedy.

As for not discussing this with DH- well, we don't discuss much, really! If I were to say 'DH, I think I'm drinking too much', he'd look pensive, say 'Well, OK, maybe it'd be an idea to cut down then'. He's drunk a fair bit less (though he never drank too much, anyway! 4 'one serve' bottles of real ale a week, maybe?) since I've been on my drought, 'in support' of me which is what I love and expect, really, from him. He's never suggested I've 'had too much' and knows as well as I do that 'my drinking' doesn't affect my ability to function in all aspects of my life, except driving or that sort of thing which he knows I wouldn't do.

So I don't think he's 'concerned' as such, though I am aware that he possibly doesn't realise exactly how much I've been drinking of late!

The eldest DC is 13. He likes a sip of what we're drinking from time to time and favours real ale, to DH's delight . Bear in mind this might be when DH and I sit in the conservatory with a drink after work, talking about our days. DH will take his bottle of beer to the table but I don't or rarely bring my wine there. We don't then drink in front of the TV, either. I appreciate in an 'ideal world' there'd be no drinking in the house at all but sadly and shamefully, alcohol is a big part of modern British culture and thus I do worry that DC seeing boring mum and dad sipping sherry at Xmas alone could have the effect of elevating alcohol to something rare and forbidden (thus desirable); or abstinence being associated with boring stay-at-home/do nothing fun parents thus they'll want to do the opposite. They ask me if I've ever been drunk- I lie, tbh (I was 20 once!), but I've not been rip roaring/can't remember who I've slept with drunk ever. So I just say 'Oh, I've probably had a couple too many in the past but you never have nor ever will see me drunk as I know when enough is enough, and that's a valuable thing to know'.

And yes, my mate does have some serious issues. IF nothing else good came out of her drunken and outrageous tirade, she'd gone so far that the next day, though there was no apology for her behaviour, we heard the first stirrings of her seeing how her endless thumping on her own 'self destruct button' wasn't affecting her now gone DH at all and that, 4 odd years after the event, she really had to think about making some steps to 'move on' with her life. She also recognised that alcohol and depression poor bed fellows make. An unfortunate way of being dragged to that conclusion, however!

As for other social things- tbh, we don't go out much at all (from choice) so I would hope to be at a stage when we've been through this daft drought (Day 17, 16 to go!) that we'd be sharing a bottle with dinner out the 3 or 4 times a year we'd do it, but not reaching for the Pinot the minute we walk in from work of an evening. i.e. 'normal' drinking!

I've lost 3 lbs in weight, too....

3lbs - now you've got my attention! Maybe it is just about finding the motivation that really makes you tick........ weight loss would do it for me :)

The thing I found with trying to cut down/only drink lager/only drink after 9pm/never on a Monday etc etc was that it was always at the forefront of my mind. It was exhausting!

Deciding to not drink at all was a HUGE weight off my mind. No shall I/shan't I/just one/ok only 3 small ones etc etc.

Best decision I ever made.

Good luck!!

I have to confess that I'm finding it a lot easier to not have to think about buying alcohol. I confess I still think about drinking it (only Day 17!), but I walk straight past the alcohol aisles in the supermarket.

Amusingly, it 'worries' me that the reality might be that I actually have to stop altogether because I do wonder if I might be like you, Housewife, and be planning my next drink all the time, which somewhat defeats the objective of only wanting to drink socially and occasionally, doesn't it?!

Sorry it's taken me a while to come back, Eruditio. I usually drink 1-2 glasses a night during the week, at the weekends maybe more like 3-4. I have already failed this week although I have cut down. It really is a habit with me, although I don't drink that much most of the time. When I do manage to go without, I feel fine and not deprived but I just don't manage it that often and I know this is bad for me .

Always in the back of my mind is that my dad and my aunt (his sister) were heavy drinkers. I would class my aunt as an alcoholic, needing a drink just to get going in the morning and she died in horrific circumstances. I know that's not who I am but there but for the grace of God etc... Molly clearly knows very little about it .

Lots of dilemmas erudito, maybe this break is good, if only to save/lose a few £/lbs! Hope things go well for you.

Thanks.

Had an interesting chat with Friend A (the one who had 'the outburst') and Friend B (the one who's kind of 'failed' in the 33 day alcohol drought). A is actually pretty pissed off with B, more so than me; largely because she (B) agreed to the Pact but has blown it 3 times in 17 days, partly because A feels, maybe a leetle erroneously, that B is in denial (which is an interesting thought since B's mother (and 2 brothers) is an alcoholic...!). B says '33 day proves nothing, my mum hasn't touched a drink in months but she's still an alcoholic, and if, as you say, you go back to drinking after the 33 days, it was meaningless...' to which I said 'Every journey starts with one step', also reminding her that I was going to do the 'holidays and high days' drinking thing (i.e. a bottle or so a week) anyway, before The Pact came along, and intend trying to do that after the 33 days are up. I certainly don't plan on reaching for the bottle every time I get in!

I don't know what I'd say 'the point' of this drought is. B says all it proves is 'willpower' but I'd like to think it shows that I can really want a drink but choose not to have one, ditto Friend A- and god knows, she's got enough reasons to drink! I hope the insight I have gained will help me consider my drinking in the future, in the knowledge that I can exercise control of it- and I know I should! Hence my OP!

The downside of this deep analysis (at lunchtime today) is that it got me thinking about alcohol more, again. It really needs to be more of a passing thought!

Anyway, tonight is my 18th sans the noble grape!

Hello erudito.

I have looked into some of the issues that you have been wrestling with. I found lots of helpful information and self help tools on the "smart recovery. org" website. Its an American CBT based programme for people who want to address addictions of all types. Its approach is different from AA and is much more based on self empowerment. It also links to another website called "drinkers checkup" which has a series of questions based to identify whether you have a drink problem and how you might want to approach it.

I also felt I had slipped into bad habits with drinking and it was very helpful in crystallising my thoughts and also giving me some strategies to change my habits. There are some interesting talk threads from people who haven't "hit rock bottom" but still want to change plus people like you who are just wondering whether you need to change and how things might be if you did.

Well done on giving yourself a break from the noble grape - I think its helpful to remember that no one ever suffered from not drinking whereas the same cannot be said for those who do drink.

Thanks eileen- I appreciate anyone's comments!

I had a look at 'smart recovery' and can well see how useful it seems to be as an alternative to AA.

The big 'thing' with me, really, is discovering whether my drinking is habit or addiction. I will know a lot better after 1) I succeed in my 32 day alcohol drought AND 2) can then continue on drinking properly socially, ie maybe Friday evening and/or Saturday evening with DH, and if I go out (which is not often at all) during the week, but then only the one as I'll probably be driving.

IF I can do that, I know it's a habit, not an addiction, but one I know I'd need to keep an eye on!

The drinkers check up website I mentioned is quite good for helping you think about what form your drinking takes and it also links to something called moderation management for people who just want to do controlled drinking.

www.drinkerscheckup.com/index.cfm?CFID=113963425&CFTOKEN=98357609

Good luck with your alcohol free 30 days. I did a similar thing & found some of the stuff on smart recovery about controlling urges is quite good when you feel a bit tempted.

Thanks for that, I will take a look as all input is welcome!

The alcohol free 32 days is going quite well, actually. I mean, I didn't think about it tonight, for instance, and my 'danger period' is over now (6pm til dinner is served, be it 6.30, 7 or 8pm).

And now it's Day 24

I have been very impressed with my friend (A. in the original post) who has managed the same as me and god knows, she's being put through the mill right now yet has not resorted to the demon drink! I'm proud of her and of me. Friend B, the one who 'blew it' 3 times since Day 1 has managed to stay off it for 10 continuous days, now- partly because Friend A gave her such a telling off, I suspect!

I have to admit it is a bit boring now and, sadly but not wholly unpredictably, I don't feel any different physically (the lbs I lost are probably still off but it's AF time...). A good thing is waking up and thinking 'OK, that's good', I don't have to ponder whether I should have stopped after the one big one last night instead of pouring a second, but I still wake up feeling unrested, woozy, tired, a bit headachey etc etc so it wasn't the booze causing that! Probably the DH who can snore for England......

The end is in sight!

Today (or after Wine o'clock tonight) will be Day 31 out of 32. On Thursday I am going over to Friend A's house and we are going to slowly savour a large glass of pinot (or 2!), though carefully as our tolerance will have plummeted. Sadly, Friend B is unlikely to be there with us as she has a sudden close family bereavement this past weekend. Though she may relish a stiff drink!

My observation is I am not missing wine as much now as I was initially, which is interesting. I was thinking about it quite a lot in the first 2 weeks but it's definitely dropped off. I am also aware that the hard work begins after this Thursday when, as I have chosen to moderate not stop, I have to be mindful of my alcohol intake all the time. Currently I'm not drinking because I'm not allowed to (Friend A would kill me ) but obviously after the Drought, it is purely up to me. I think that I'm not going to worry about drinking this w/e, but even then, that means only drinking on Saturday as I'm on-call Friday and all day/night Sunday), then henceforth I am going to practice moderate drinking via only drinking on holidays and high-days, i.e. Fri +/- Saturday; out with friends etc etc, I will only drink when I mean it, not casually, one glass segueing into 2 of a mid-week evening.

I will report back! This is becoming my personal blog, isn't it?!