Vaccinations and nursery schools

[Louise1010]

This is my first post so forgive me if I do anything wrong!

I am just beginning to look at nursery schools for my 15 month old son, and I am a bit surprised that they don't seem to care whether or not he has been vaccinated. I expected it to be a requirement.

It seems incredible to me that I have to provide evidence of my cat's jabs to the cattery but when it comes to children anything goes.

Has anyone come across a nursery school in the UK that does require it?

Irresponsible?

Leonie did not need taking pity on.

Aluminium could be linked to autism as the authors in the links I posted have said. They are asking for further research. You are not. Fine. Are you better than them?

I can find no websites suggesting turnips cause lung cancer. I can find them suggesting that aluminium could be linked to autism. I've posted two of them.

"A vague feeling of unease". In whom?

Do I have to believe or disbelieve every link that I post to? Does it matter? Why can I not post links to enable others to make up their own minds even if I have not made up mine?

So could turnips.
So could Elmo from Sesame Street..

It does get boring arguing with some on here. Trouble is, they'd love it if we just went away and kept quiet.
Mind you, it does get boring going around in circles.
There is no grown up debate, is there? No sharing of ideas? No toing and froing of ideas. It gets very juvenile on here.

'Do I have to believe or disbelieve every link that I post to? Does it matter? Why can I not post links to enable others to make up their own minds even if I have not made up mine?'

Belief doesn't really come into it though. Either you can tell the difference between a good study or you can't. Not all studies are created the same.

'There is no grown up debate, is there? No sharing of ideas? No toing and froing of ideas'
It's not a matter of sharing of ideas either. You can hold whatever idea you want, but it is not equal to the balance of good, solid science. You can't just toss it into the ring as a plausible alternative.

PJ, the reason for linking to the Alzheimer's website has been explained to you several times on this thread and the other one. It was neither nonsensical nor intended to cause unease and/or suspicion. Why do these things have to be repeated so many times?

Why are you still going on about links between Al and autism and Alzheimer's anyway? I thought you made it clear that you weren't saying Tab had said that.

"Not all studies are created the same".

I've already said I'd like to find the full study that Bruffin posted. That gives the other side to the al in vaccines debate - that it isn't harmful.

It was Jo who implied I ought to say whether or not I believe the studies that I link to.

Why are you still going on about links between Al and autism and Alzheimer's anyway?

I am mentioning that Tab repeatedly made posts suggesting links.

I thought you made it clear that you weren't saying Tab had said that

I have noted that Tabitha subsequently said that she didn't intend to suggest that Aluminium causes autism and/or Alzheimers

the reason for linking to the Alzheimer's website has been explained to you several times on this thread and the other one

Doesn't make sense. If there was a hidden purpose for making the post, it should have been stated in that post

Have you found any evidence to support you accusatons yet?

Unease and suspicion in whom PJ?

I said, tabitha, you should read papers before you link to them. That way you can identify if they are solid, and thus of interest to others. Just googling aluminium+vaccine damage, and tossing the first semi-credible sounding links into a post is of no benefit to anyone.

I think it's irresponsible to suggest vaccines are dangerous on a public forum without knowing the evidence. Firing off stuff that you may or may not have once read somewhere, you know not where just smacks of scare-moungering.

I think it irresponsible to suppress all valid debate and that includes the issue of whether or not al in vaccines is linked to autism.

I may choose to post whatever links I choose, whether or not I believe them and whether or not I have access to the full document, thank you very much.

Valid is the keyword.

Otherwise you are crying 'fire' in a crowded theatre.

PJ, do I really have to repeat the reason for Tab linking to the Alzheimer's website? She was discussing ingested aluminium passing through the body with EB - the Alzheimer's website mentioned this so it supported what she was saying. It makes perfect sense when you read through her posts. For some reason, you jumped in with "are you saying Al causes Alzheimer's" and so on and so forth even though the link to the Alzheimer's website didn't say that it did. You continue banging on about Tab saying there is some sort of link even when she says that she isn't saying that. Then you say that you don't think that she's saying there is a link, then you say that she must be otherwise why is she posting it and so on and so forth in never ending circles. Tabitha has not suggested anywhere that Al causes Alzheimer's.

This could have been quite an interesting and informative discussion if it wasn't for all the silliness and the constant need to repeat things and translate the most basic posts for people who seem to just constantly misinterpret things.

I may choose to post whatever I like about turnips causing lung cancer, even though I may have no valid evidence to support my claim.

Obviously, I run the risk that some unsympathic people may allege it is "nonsense" or that I am trying to spread unfounded fear and suspicion.

I have the right to ignore and abuse such people.
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(for "I" read "Tabitha and Bumbley". For "Turnips" read "Aluminium." For "Lung Cancer" read "whatever lunatic idea they have this week")

PJ, are you now accusing me of suggesting that Al causes some 'lunatic idea' of the week? Can you quote where I've said anything of the sort?

Maybe our best chance of actually getting this discussion back on track is to just skip over PJs post. S/he seems determined to just take the thread in silly little circles.

Oops missed out my PA smiley at the end of the first line. Here it is: :) just for you dear PJ.

Nobody takes it seriously because it is the latest antivaxer fad

We had MMR which should now have resoundingly have been put to bed,

Then there was mercury- again no evidence whatsoever

Now we have aluminium - which has been used for 75 years in vaccines with no problem, but now suddenly its suspicious

What is going to be next?

PJ

Unease and suspicion in whom PJ?

General point to whoever wishes to read it:
If I post a link to an abstract and I do not have a copy of the full document, then I'd be prepared to listen to anyone who reads the full document with a sensible and adult approach and then tells me, in a sensible and adult way, that the paper is incorrect or superceded because of x, y and z. Yet, that hasn't happened here.

Are the pro-vaccine lobby scared of debate (for the record, I am not and never have been and am unlikely ever to become anti vaccination)?